"the big rip" the end of the universe

[tomorows_scientist]

how is this possible??? the universe is endless and never stops (is always expanding)&nbsp;so how could it reach a point where it can't expand anymore? there is no limitations no brick wall for it to randomly stop expanding and then just go oh no we cant go no farther and then just boom no more universe ????? i mean there isnt a limit to how far it can expand is there ? how would it be possible ? from what i was understanding it is like the universe is one big rubber band and we keep getting stretched out farther and farther untill just boom we can't expand no more and so it snaps. but a rubber band of course works much diffrently than the universe and so ..... like how is this possible lol im confusing myself i hope i didnt lose anyone lol. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[origin]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>how is this possible??? the universe is endless and never stops (is always expanding)&nbsp;so how could it reach a point where it can't expand anymore? there is no limitations no brick wall for it to randomly stop expanding and then just go oh no we cant go no farther and then just boom no more universe ????? i mean there isnt a limit to how far it can expand is there ? how would it be possible ? from what i was understanding it is like the universe is one big rubber band and we keep getting stretched out farther and farther untill just boom we can't expand no more and so it snaps. but a rubber band of course works much diffrently than the universe and so ..... like how is this possible lol im confusing myself i hope i didnt lose anyone lol. <br />Posted by tomorows_scientist</DIV><br /><br />The way it looks now based on what we know the universe will expand forever, The stars will burn out eventually and the unverse will be a cold dark place.&nbsp; Thats trillions of years into the future so I would sweat it.&nbsp; Edited to add: &nbsp;I <strong>wouldn't </strong>sweat it!!</p><p>Edited to add there is a nice article on this in sciam.com, search for 'The end of Cosmology".</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>how is this possible??? the universe is endless and never stops (is always expanding)&nbsp;so how could it reach a point where it can't expand anymore? there is no limitations no brick wall for it to randomly stop expanding and then just go oh no we cant go no farther and then just boom no more universe ????? i mean there isnt a limit to how far it can expand is there ? how would it be possible ? from what i was understanding it is like the universe is one big rubber band and we keep getting stretched out farther and farther untill just boom we can't expand no more and so it snaps. but a rubber band of course works much diffrently than the universe and so ..... like how is this possible lol im confusing myself i hope i didnt lose anyone lol. <br /> Posted by tomorows_scientist</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>The "brick wall" you are referring to is referred to as the "critical density".&nbsp; It is basically dependent on how much mass there is in the Universe.&nbsp; As Origin mentioned above, they have measured the critical density to be to be low enough that the Universe will not stop expanding.&nbsp; It is supposed to expand infinitely while slowing down (but never quite stopping).&nbsp; With this current model, the Universe will either undergo a big rip, big freeze or heat death, all of which are rather speculative hypotheses based on our lack of knowledge about the observed acceleration of the universe.&nbsp; Determining what, if anything, Dark Energy is will be a big step in figuring it out. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[DrRocket]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>how is this possible??? the universe is endless and never stops (is always expanding)&nbsp;so how could it reach a point where it can't expand anymore? there is no limitations no brick wall for it to randomly stop expanding and then just go oh no we cant go no farther and then just boom no more universe ????? i mean there isnt a limit to how far it can expand is there ? how would it be possible ? from what i was understanding it is like the universe is one big rubber band and we keep getting stretched out farther and farther untill just boom we can't expand no more and so it snaps. but a rubber band of course works much diffrently than the universe and so ..... like how is this possible lol im confusing myself i hope i didnt lose anyone lol. <br />Posted by tomorows_scientist</DIV></p><p>Your analogy of the rubber band is better than you think.&nbsp; It is generally believed that the universe is NOT endless.&nbsp; It does seem to be expanding, much like stretching a rubber band.&nbsp; And, depending on the amount of mass in the universe, and depending on the eventual resolution of the dark energy question, it may stop expanding just like there are limits to stretching a rubber band, with a limited force.&nbsp; But unlike a rubber band, it does not break, but just snaps back.&nbsp; Now, this is all subject to revision, and there is data indicating that the expansion is actually accelerating and may not stop.&nbsp; Nevertheless, the universe is still thought to be finite -- just like the rubber band.</p><p>The other point is that the universe is all that there is. So while it is expanding, it is <u>not</u> expanding inside of something bigger.&nbsp; This is indeed a bit confusing, but you have to get used to that.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[weeman]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Your analogy of the rubber band is better than you think.&nbsp; It is generally believed that the universe is NOT endless.&nbsp; It does seem to be expanding, much like stretching a rubber band.&nbsp; And, depending on the amount of mass in the universe, and depending on the eventual resolution of the dark energy question, it may stop expanding just like there are limits to stretching a rubber band, with a limited force.&nbsp; But unlike a rubber band, it does not break, but just snaps back.&nbsp; Now, this is all subject to revision, and there is data indicating that the expansion is actually accelerating and may not stop.&nbsp; Nevertheless, the universe is still thought to be finite -- just like the rubber band.The other point is that the universe is all that there is. So while it is expanding, it is not expanding inside of something bigger.&nbsp; This is indeed a bit confusing, but you have to get used to that. <br />Posted by DrRocket</DIV><br /><br />And that's when many astrophysicists say, "the universe expands into itself." Of course, this leaves many people scratching their heads, and badgering physicists for being wrong because something can't possibly expand into itself and nothing else. </p><p>Here's how I see it: In the quest for the ultimate theory&nbsp;of everything, we need to surrender our every day reasoning, and accept the fact that if the universe represents all of existence, then there will be things that we just can't comprehend because we are trying to understand something that is infinitely greatly than our otherwise primitive minds. The problem is that many people try to fit the workings of the cosmos within the constructs of our every day lives on Earth. We assume that if it can't possibly exist that way here on Earth with common-day mathematics and physics, then it can't possibly exist that way else where in the universe (and beyond for that matter!). </p><p>In the hunt for the deepest answers to the universe, we are trying to figure out whether or not the universe will expand forever, or if it will slow down, stop, and then begin to collapse in on itself. </p><p>An open universe means that the universe will expand forever; billions to trillions of years from now all matter in the universe will eventually die out and the last&nbsp;inhabitants of the cosmos will be massive black holes (which will eventually die out themselves). A flat universe means that the expansion will eventually start to slow down; however, it will infinitely slow down, never actually coming to a complete stop. A closed universe means that one day all the mass in the universe will overcome the expansion. The expansion will slow down, stop, and then reverse itself so that the universe collapses and ends in what is known as the Big Crunch. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Techies: We do it in the dark. </font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>"Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.</strong><strong>" -Albert Einstein </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>A closed universe means that one day all the mass in the universe will overcome the expansion. The expansion will slow down, stop, and then reverse itself so that the universe collapses and ends in what is known as the Big Crunch. <br /> Posted by weeman</DIV></p><p>Not necessarily.&nbsp; Depending on what, if anything, dark energy turns out to be, a closed universe can still infinitely expand.&nbsp; This is the current status of the universe based on observations.&nbsp;&nbsp; A flat universe equals 1, but the latest measurements have measure the curvature to be 1.02 (+/- .02) meaning the Universe is flat, or very nearly flat with a slight positive curvature.&nbsp; This means we are possibly in a closed universe.&nbsp; With the recent observation the universe is accelerating in its expansion, the concept of dark energy is introduced as a solution.&nbsp; With dark energy, even though the universe may be closed, the expansion can still continue infinitely. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[baulten]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>how is this possible??? the universe is endless and never stops (is always expanding)&nbsp;so how could it reach a point where it can't expand anymore? there is no limitations no brick wall for it to randomly stop expanding and then just go oh no we cant go no farther and then just boom no more universe ????? i mean there isnt a limit to how far it can expand is there ? how would it be possible ? from what i was understanding it is like the universe is one big rubber band and we keep getting stretched out farther and farther untill just boom we can't expand no more and so it snaps. but a rubber band of course works much diffrently than the universe and so ..... like how is this possible lol im confusing myself i hope i didnt lose anyone lol. <br />Posted by tomorows_scientist</DIV></p><p>The rubber band comparison is great.&nbsp; Essential, in an ever accelerating universe, one could theorize that first the expansion overcomes gravity on a large scale (outside of superclusters, which it seems to already have done), then it will overcome it on a local scale (Superclusters will start flying apart), then lower and lower (Clusters of galaxies fly apart, satellite galaxies fly away from large galaxes, stars fly apart form galaxies, planets fly apart from stars, matter overcomes electromagnetic bonds and flies apart, atoms overcome strong and weak nuclear bonds and fly apart).&nbsp; However, it seems right now that gravity is drawing superclusters together and dark energy is pushing everything out of them apart.</p>

 

[pradipta]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Not necessarily.&nbsp; Depending on what, if anything, dark energy turns out to be, a closed universe can still infinitely expand.&nbsp; This is the current status of the universe based on observations.&nbsp;&nbsp; A flat universe equals 1, but the latest measurements have measure the curvature to be 1.02 (+/- .02) meaning the Universe is flat, or very nearly flat with a slight positive curvature.&nbsp; This means we are possibly in a closed universe.&nbsp; With the recent observation the universe is accelerating in its expansion, the concept of dark energy is introduced as a solution.&nbsp; With dark energy, even though the universe may be closed, the expansion can still continue infinitely. <br />Posted by derekmcd</DIV> <p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">I hope everybody must admit that everything has a limited form. Perhaps in the field of space research we have forgotten this term and through the giant telescope we are searching space secret situated out of hundreds light years. We search so because we find always a boundless universe. </font></p><p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Since the ancestral time, world space research is progressing on wrong concept<span>&nbsp; </span>because we unknown about space mirror which is a great mystery and creator of lots of mysteries viz. milk ways, galaxies, nebulas, white dwarfs, black holes etcs. Hence without study of space mirror the space research has no future.</font></p><p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">In sort it can not explain in short. Therefore it invites to visit </font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">http://www.spacemirrormystery.com</font><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> to know the original truth and if you like, impose your genius mind for better space research or invite your friends fond of space study or drop your valuable comments. <span>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>pradipta</p> </div>

 

[pradipta]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>how is this possible??? the universe is endless and never stops (is always expanding)&nbsp;so how could it reach a point where it can't expand anymore? there is no limitations no brick wall for it to randomly stop expanding and then just go oh no we cant go no farther and then just boom no more universe ????? i mean there isnt a limit to how far it can expand is there ? how would it be possible ? from what i was understanding it is like the universe is one big rubber band and we keep getting stretched out farther and farther untill just boom we can't expand no more and so it snaps. but a rubber band of course works much diffrently than the universe and so ..... like how is this possible lol im confusing myself i hope i didnt lose anyone lol. <br />Posted by tomorows_scientist</DIV> <p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">I hope everybody must admit that everything has a limited form. Perhaps in the field of space research we have forgotten this term and through the giant telescope we are searching space secret situated out of hundreds light years. We search so because we find always a boundless universe. </font></p><p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Since the ancestral time, world space research is progressing on wrong concept<span>&nbsp; </span>because we unknown about space mirror which is a great mystery and creator of lots of mysteries viz. milk ways, galaxies, nebulas, white dwarfs, black holes etcs. Hence without study of space mirror the space research has no future.</font></p><p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">In sort it can not explain in short. Therefore it invites to visit </font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">http://www.spacemirrormystery.com</font><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> to know the original truth and if you like, impose your genius mind for better space research or invite your friends fond of space study or drop your valuable comments. <span>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>pradipta</p> </div>

 

[pradipta]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Your analogy of the rubber band is better than you think.&nbsp; It is generally believed that the universe is NOT endless.&nbsp; It does seem to be expanding, much like stretching a rubber band.&nbsp; And, depending on the amount of mass in the universe, and depending on the eventual resolution of the dark energy question, it may stop expanding just like there are limits to stretching a rubber band, with a limited force.&nbsp; But unlike a rubber band, it does not break, but just snaps back.&nbsp; Now, this is all subject to revision, and there is data indicating that the expansion is actually accelerating and may not stop.&nbsp; Nevertheless, the universe is still thought to be finite -- just like the rubber band.The other point is that the universe is all that there is. So while it is expanding, it is not expanding inside of something bigger.&nbsp; This is indeed a bit confusing, but you have to get used to that. <br />Posted by DrRocket</DIV><br /><p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">I hope everybody must admit that everything has a limited form. Perhaps in the field of space research we have forgotten this term and through the giant telescope we are searching space secret situated out of hundreds light years. We search so because we find always a boundless universe. </font></p><p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Since the ancestral time, world space research is progressing on wrong concept<span>&nbsp; </span>because we unknown about space mirror which is a great mystery and creator of lots of mysteries viz. milk ways, galaxies, nebulas, white dwarfs, black holes etcs. Hence without study of space mirror the space research has no future.</font></p><p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">In sort it can not explain in short. Therefore it invites to visit </font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">http://www.spacemirrormystery.com</font><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> to know the original truth and if you like, impose your genius mind for better space research or invite your friends fond of space study or drop your valuable comments. <span>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>pradipta</p> </div>

 

[pradipta]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;The "brick wall" you are referring to is referred to as the "critical density".&nbsp; It is basically dependent on how much mass there is in the Universe.&nbsp; As Origin mentioned above, they have measured the critical density to be to be low enough that the Universe will not stop expanding.&nbsp; It is supposed to expand infinitely while slowing down (but never quite stopping).&nbsp; With this current model, the Universe will either undergo a big rip, big freeze or heat death, all of which are rather speculative hypotheses based on our lack of knowledge about the observed acceleration of the universe.&nbsp; Determining what, if anything, Dark Energy is will be a big step in figuring it out. <br />Posted by derekmcd</DIV> <p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">I hope everybody must admit that everything has a limited form. Perhaps in the field of space research we have forgotten this term and through the giant telescope we are searching space secret situated out of hundreds light years. We search so because we find always a boundless universe. </font></p><p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Since the ancestral time, world space research is progressing on wrong concept<span>&nbsp; </span>because we unknown about space mirror which is a great mystery and creator of lots of mysteries viz. milk ways, galaxies, nebulas, white dwarfs, black holes etcs. Hence without study of space mirror the space research has no future.</font></p><p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">In sort it can not explain in short. Therefore it invites to visit </font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">http://www.spacemirrormystery.com</font><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> to know the original truth and if you like, impose your genius mind for better space research or invite your friends fond of space study or drop your valuable comments. <span>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>pradipta</p> </div>

 

[pradipta]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>And that's when many astrophysicists say, "the universe expands into itself." Of course, this leaves many people scratching their heads, and badgering physicists for being wrong because something can't possibly expand into itself and nothing else. Here's how I see it: In the quest for the ultimate theory&nbsp;of everything, we need to surrender our every day reasoning, and accept the fact that if the universe represents all of existence, then there will be things that we just can't comprehend because we are trying to understand something that is infinitely greatly than our otherwise primitive minds. The problem is that many people try to fit the workings of the cosmos within the constructs of our every day lives on Earth. We assume that if it can't possibly exist that way here on Earth with common-day mathematics and physics, then it can't possibly exist that way else where in the universe (and beyond for that matter!). In the hunt for the deepest answers to the universe, we are trying to figure out whether or not the universe will expand forever, or if it will slow down, stop, and then begin to collapse in on itself. An open universe means that the universe will expand forever; billions to trillions of years from now all matter in the universe will eventually die out and the last&nbsp;inhabitants of the cosmos will be massive black holes (which will eventually die out themselves). A flat universe means that the expansion will eventually start to slow down; however, it will infinitely slow down, never actually coming to a complete stop. A closed universe means that one day all the mass in the universe will overcome the expansion. The expansion will slow down, stop, and then reverse itself so that the universe collapses and ends in what is known as the Big Crunch. <br />Posted by weeman</DIV> <p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">I hope everybody must admit that everything has a limited form. Perhaps in the field of space research we have forgotten this term and through the giant telescope we are searching space secret situated out of hundreds light years. We search so because we find always a boundless universe. </font></p><p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Since the ancestral time, world space research is progressing on wrong concept<span>&nbsp; </span>because we unknown about space mirror which is a great mystery and creator of lots of mysteries viz. milk ways, galaxies, nebulas, white dwarfs, black holes etcs. Hence without study of space mirror the space research has no future.</font></p><p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">In sort it can not explain in short. Therefore it invites to visit </font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">http://www.spacemirrormystery.com</font><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> to know the original truth and if you like, impose your genius mind for better space research or invite your friends fond of space study or drop your valuable comments. <span>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>pradipta</p> </div>

 

[pradipta]

<p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">I hope everybody must admit that everything has a limited form. Perhaps in the field of space research we have forgotten this term and through the giant telescope we are searching space secret situated out of hundreds light years. We search so because we find always a boundless universe. </font></p><p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Since the ancestral time, world space research is progressing on wrong concept<span>&nbsp; </span>because we unknown about space mirror which is a great mystery and creator of lots of mysteries viz. milk ways, galaxies, nebulas, white dwarfs, black holes etcs. Hence without study of space mirror the space research has no future.</font></p><p style="margin:0in0in0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">In sort it can not explain in short. Therefore it invites to visit </font><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">http://www.spacemirrormystery.com</font><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> to know the original truth and if you like, impose your genius mind for better space research or invite your friends fond of space study or drop your valuable comments. <span>&nbsp;&nbsp;</span></font></font></p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3">&nbsp;</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>pradipta</p> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The rubber band comparison is great.&nbsp; Essential, in an ever accelerating universe, one could theorize that first the expansion overcomes gravity on a large scale (outside of superclusters, which it seems to already have done), then it will overcome it on a local scale (Superclusters will start flying apart), then lower and lower (Clusters of galaxies fly apart, satellite galaxies fly away from large galaxes, stars fly apart form galaxies, planets fly apart from stars, matter overcomes electromagnetic bonds and flies apart, atoms overcome strong and weak nuclear bonds and fly apart).&nbsp; However, it seems right now that gravity is drawing superclusters together and dark energy is pushing everything out of them apart. <br /> Posted by baulten</DIV></p><p>You're describing the big rip.&nbsp; I'm not sure i'm sold on that.&nbsp; What happens when it hits the level of quarks?&nbsp; Trying to separate quarks just creates new quarks.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>