The End In Sight

[Steve landon]

As climate change continues to devastate the world more and more each year passes by. Well I believe that humans time on Earth is nearing the end. We failed the one thing that gave us what we needed to survive . A Planet which provided food,water, shelter,each other only to watch with each new generations a destructible new age . What needs to happen is the new group of space soldiers need to find and build a solution on how to save as many human lives and transport them off earth before destruction takes place. It will come out of nowhere . We can't prevent mother earth for wiping out human life ,but what we can do is prepare for life in space . And I'm talking Star Trek living. Big giant ships that humans can live in until they find their next living planet for humans to survive on. Technology was a major role player on destruction of the earth . Now is the time we do need it to truly survive. If humans are.going to live past the will of mother earth then people better start using their brains and make.this happen.

 

[Catastrophe]

I take your point, but would it not be easier to keep our planet habitable?

Has anyone calculated how long before destroying the Amazon rain forest will mean that we start running out of oxygen.

Cat

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

I thought the end happened in 2012? Darn unreliable myans

I take your point, but would it not be easier to keep our planet habitable?

Has anyone calculated how long before destroying the Amazon rain forest will mean that we start running out of oxygen.

Cat

Soylent Green if we are not careful.
Ever watch that movie?

 

[Catastrophe]

I thought the end happened in 2012? Darn unreliable myans


Soylent Green if we are not careful.
Ever watch that movie?

No. Cat

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

No. Cat

Cat good movie to watch A future we are heading to at rocket speed.

 

[Wolfshadw]

Cat good movie to watch A future we are heading to at rocket speed.

Heading to? Today we call it Incogmeato.

-Wolf sends

 

[Catastrophe]

Thanks. Wiki 'plot' starts:

"In the year 2022, the cumulative effects of overpopulation, pollution, and some apparent climate catastrophe have caused severe worldwide shortages of food, water and housing. "

I won't quote more. They only missed out covid!

Cat

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

Heading to? Today we call it Incogmeato.

-Wolf sends

A classic Charlton Heston movie of overpopulation and a new kind of food.

 

[Ken Fabian]

What needs to happen is the new group of space soldiers need to find and build a solution on how to save as many human lives and transport them off earth before destruction takes place. It will come out of nowhere . We can't prevent mother earth for wiping out human life ,but what we can do is prepare for life in space .

I disagree. I think that no matter how much of a mess we are making of Earth it is still far better and offers more opportunities than anything in space; colonising space is not a viable alternative. Like Cat says - better to stay and try and fix things here. I think it will be failure to do that - failure to maintain an enduring wealthy, healthy Earth civilisation and economy - that will guarantee humans won't develop the capability to establish viable colonies in space.

I think Lifeboats/Planet 2 motivations are not motivations that can work. My taxes to pay for a small number to get an Out when I have to stay? Screw that. I probably won't be invited into any bunkers either - which already do for the rich and powerful what this proposal does, at least for humanity killing possibilities short of total planetary destruction. Musk and Bezos are rare exceptions that think they prefer space to bunkers - if they are indeed exceptions and do not already have bunkers.

I think space colonies will only arise as an emergent consequence of economically viable space activities that are profitable within the Greater Earth economy: not since our distant ancestors colonised new territory carrying all the tools for survival on their backs with all the necessary knowledge in a few individual heads (in an abundance of extraordinarily resource rich and habitable opportunities) has colonisation been successfully done independently of the economic needs of greater society that spawned them.

 

[Catastrophe]

The choice may not be ours;

Do not underestimate the power of 'Mother Earth' to institute self (Gaia) preservation.

Cat

 

[sam85geo]

The Cretaceous Period ended with an abrupt "Bang" followed by a ELE die off for many species. We by our ancestors' sheer random survival chance were eventually propelled by Evolution to dominate the Earth. Luck us. Whether we wind up extinct seems more to be under our control than Nature's. Colonizing Space appears a "mid-summer night's" dream given our current technological capabilities. As for Bunkers, ..... Really. Those excluded would clog the air vents among others acts of desperation, rage and revenge....... it's called being human. Solution: Fix up the home we have. Or, as Cat has posted, Mother Earth will do it for us; the implication being that "thuggish" Evolution will do the "nasty work". Such begs the questions: "Where's the tipping point" , "When might we reach it", and "What actions can humans really take that will stabilize Earth's habitability". No answers.

 

[Catastrophe]

I have , to date, considered meteorite/steroid impact as being the main threat to Earth.

Having seen a video "Volcanic Planet" on Smithsonian Channel, I am now aware that volcanic activity is of comparable importance.

Flood Basalts (mtu.edu)
QUOTE
Flood Basalts are high volume eruptions that flood vast areas of the Earth, covering broad regions with flat lying lava surfaces. They are said to be the result of mantle convection through hot spots, which occur sporadically in time and place. In the USA we are familar with the Columbia River Flood basalts, which represent hundreds of black basalt lava layers which cover eastern Washington and parts of Idaho and Oregon (see map at right), erupted 15-17 my ago.
QUOTE

Cat

 

[Ken Fabian]

. As for Bunkers, ..... Really. Those excluded would clog the air vents among others acts of desperation

I am sure the major bunkers would be extremely well defended; they are centres of Communication and Command for the world's best prepared military's. Where they are Chemical-Biological-Nuclear hardened they can function without air vents. The suburban Prepper ones might still resist less determined mobs and stand off other Preppers but would not be able to resist the sorties those strongholds could send out - and maintaining the capability to project force outside the bunker would have high priority.

Depends on the kinds of disasters of course, but I think warfare surely still tops the list when it comes to most likely anytime soon global catastrophes. The ability of human beings to make a bad problem much worse is boundless. Failing on the big issues like emissions driven climate change and population - like we keep failing on equity and justice and international relations - doesn't just delay a reckoning, it assures it will be worse when it comes.

Messing up the politics and economics makes war more likely and hard and frightening times suit the demagogues and hardliners that are most to likely mess things up. Sort of self perpetuating and self fulfilling. Yet there is too much good going on to despair; a lot of human goodwill and foresight and intelligence and cautious trust exists all around the world. In many ways I think Humanity is better placed than ever in our history to find and apply solutions.

 

[Catastrophe]

Ken: "I think space colonies will only arise as an emergent consequence of economically viable space activities that are profitable within the Greater Earth economy " I agree.

This planet is overpopulated and has already begun to suffer the effects. Whether or not one believes that covid is rooted in overpopulation, it is undeniable that overpopulation is exacerbating it. The effects may exacerbate world hunger.

Cat

 

[Catastrophe]

I am really concerned about this:
"Now is the time we do need it to truly survive. If humans are .going to live past the will of mother earth then people better start using their brains and make this happen."

One thing about covid (and I can only speak for UK) is that it is giving us a chance to do (or not do) something. Because of my age and vulnerability I am not allowed out of my house. However, there is an edict that all who have gone over to working from home should continue to do so. I believe many will continue to do so when the epidemic is over.
There are numerous other instances where such habits will carry over and reduce fuel consumption etcetera.
Probably there are similar cases in the US and worldwide?

Have we made a start to turn the corner?

Cat

 

[Wolfshadw]

There are numerous other instances where such habits will carry over and reduce fuel consumption etcetera.
Probably there are similar cases in the US and worldwide?

I haven't heard anything locally (Minnesota, US), but some of my online cohorts are saying they may continue working from home once restrictions are lifted. Personally, I've always be a proponent of working from home. Even in the early 2000s when I was working as a server administrator, I could do 90% of my job from home (they wouldn't let me, but I could have).

-Wolf sends

 

[Catastrophe]

Another development is how meetings can more acceptably be conducted by video links.

Having once been involved in sales (technical sales, not hard selling) there seem to be opportunities beyond simply saving time and fuel in salespeople making visits. If face to face meetings (of any kind) are to be discouraged, I am sure providers of product will find efficient ways of offering their wares and buyers may be shielded from hard selling.

Beyond sales, of course the possibilities evolve almost exponentially. Any sort of meeting can benefit.

Of course, reduction in social contact may have a down side. This must be understood. There may be halfway benefits, meaning that shy people who might avoid personal confrontation might be happier with on screen meetings.

These are just a few thoughts "off the top of my head".
This is an important issue, and I believe we all should consider how we might get involved.

Cat

 

[Atlan0001]

In a way nature put all its eggs in one basket, the most complex basket of all, when it evolved humans on Earth. A species made -- evolved -- to be a life carrier species to the universe; if at all possible to keep it from any more mass extinctions. We are a spatial species because we have a spatial mind. We are a space age species. We were made for it, and in two million years we developed for it. From the first tool and product of tooling we've built for it. We are the only Earthly species that can look out and perceive and dream. And that makes us a frontier species to the max. And, that makes us inherently the most dangerous species to one island world that can ever exist. Being essentially the evolved species of all species on Earth, the one basket of all eggs, the most complex and varied and divergent species of all, the most claustrophobic and befouling child of Earth, we weren't designed for Utopia on Earth. We were designed for frontier, which by its very nature is also a designing for conquest, for war. We were designed to birth earth life into the universe or commit species suicide as the only alternative. There is no way nature needs us or wants us, or evolved us, for anything else; any other purpose. It's not our world to perpetuity. This was only our world as a womb world to birth from or be aborted from. A nest to leave or die from restriction, constriction and befoulment,

"Give me liberty or give me death" means something to too many humans. Voluntarily and involuntarily, wittingly and unwittingly, "war of a thousand little cuts" will make Utopia on Earth into Dystopia on Earth, Heaven on Earth into Hell on Earth, and destroy it, and quite probably the species with it. Don't talk, don't even think, "saving the Earth" outside of working to birth and expand life from the Earth. And not to the Moon or Mars, which is the equivalent of 1492CE Europe talking about colonizing Iceland to take care of a continent of population, societal, and economic problems. They aren't nearly enough, not even close. Nor is the entirety of the bodies of the solar system as they naturally are. Only as the looser matter mass resource, including the several moons' resource, even some of the planetary resource, of the solar system can be mined and made into mass colony complex city-states in space, turning inanimate matter mass into animate energy, particularly life activity energy, will there be enough for maybe thousands of years of expansion and growth, by which plentifulness of time, we may have discovered or invented our way to take life out to the next frontier up.

 

[IDNeon]

The most overlooked part of climate change is the human element.

What do you think people with nuclear weapons or millions of guns and literally billions of bullets are going to do when THEY are told THEY are the ones who have to exit the lifeboat so everyone else can live?

Serious question.

 

[COLGeek]

Folks, just a friendly reminder to not make this a political argument. Thanks.

 

[Atlan0001]

Folks, just a friendly reminder to not make this a political argument. Thanks.

Sorry COLGeek, but in this day and age, everything, literally everything, has been made, dictated, political and "political argument." It is completely, totally, escapeless.

 

[COLGeek]

Sorry COLGeek, but in this day and age, everything, literally everything, has been made, dictated, political and "political argument." It is completely, totally, escapeless.

I disagree. While political decisions can certainly impact science, we should be able to focus on the science of matters without being distracted by politics.

 

[Atlan0001]

I disagree. While political decisions can certainly impact science, we should be able to focus on the science of matters without being distracted by politics.

Sorry again, but you are wrong and trying to think and view with blinders on, Science has been made entirely political. Entirely. I would say, fanatically religiously political. It is now the way Orwell long ago said it, and everything else, would become. I won't pursue this uncomfortable discomfort any further than I already have here.

 

[COLGeek]

I think we have strayed from the original question enough. Agree to disagree. 'Tis all good.

 

[IG2007]

Remember the GRAPES rule, everyone.