The Future of Hard SF

[specfiction]

I agree with many of your points. Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with pulp, fantasy, comics, satire or any another literary forms that capture the imagination of some group of readers. And as to hard and soft SF, I make little distinction between these two. Science, in its purest manifestation, can sound like metaphysics to the untrained ear. There is a raging debate among physicists right now as to whether the more extreme versions of string theory are really demonstrable physics or an exercise in abstract math, which may have no reality at all.<br /><br />What I'm really getting at here, and this is a hard (no pun intended) point to make, is that good fiction with overtones of "real" science, with realistic characters, and subtle societal drama is systematically selected against by most publishers today. For example, I contacted the agents of Robin Cook and Michael Crichton. They told me they did not represent writers of science fiction! Serious agents want little to do with “real” SF today, that’s a fact.<br /><br />The point is that serious science fiction has been marginalized, in large part because of its former success that created a marketing niche strongly associated with what many of the people on this thread have complained about: generic fantasy, comics, tv and movie tie-in's, etc. There is nothing wrong with these things, but through least-common-denominator marketing, and many decision makers in publishing who don't know or like real science, the literary branch of good SF has been greatly diminished.<br /><br />The reason that I choose to speak on this site, “space.com,” was because it seemed like a site frequented by people who may actually understand and like science.

 

[specfiction]

Yevaud, if you're the writer who wrote "Alien Beach," I liked it very much. And as for Star Wars, when asked, George Lucas said it was "Space Fantasy" not SF. Bravo George for getting it right.

 

[specfiction]

Also, a note about Philip K Dick. I recently read something written by his son who recalled his dad agonized over the lack of mainstream recognition of his work. Only after he died, poor, something he didn't want, did he get that recognition, mainly through the efforts of his family who continued to beleive in his work.<br /><br />Like anything else, excellent professionals want recognition and, by the way, money, for their efforts. If you look, for example, at the state of science in the US today, it tracks the trend of good SF. The best students would rather get an MBA or Law degree. It's easier, and the rewards are greater. Likewise, the effect on the US is that manufacturing, innovation, and R&D are diminishing.

 

[yevaud]

<i>Yevaud, if you're the writer who wrote "Alien Beach," I liked it very much. </i><br /><br />Ahh, I regret not, though I do have several stories and/or novels in various stages of development.<br /><br /><i>And as for Star Wars, when asked, George Lucas said it was "Space Fantasy" not SF. Bravo George for getting it right.</i><br /><br />That descriptive works as well. My comment of which wasn't to knock the saga - it was well done overall, and fostered an entirely new generation of SF and Fantasy films.<br /><br />I note that one of the best selling genres today are the Military-oriented SF stories: Honor Harrington, Barrayar, Hammer's Slammers, etc. Also the Alternate history genre (Turtledove is virtually a sub-genre in his own right). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[specfiction]

One other thing I'd like to hear comments on--The SciFi channel. Has anyone out there ever seen so much crap in one place? Basically, I like SF, but consider the SciFi channel unwatchable.<br /><br />They used to have a website that web published SF short stories. It's stange that with all the great SF published in the past, and some good SF published right now, this is what they chose to popularize. That must tell you something.<br /><br />Someone will bring up BattleStar ... Okay, let's get beyond that. What about the other 99.9% of **** they've produced. <br /><br />Has anyone here ever seen the PBS production of LeGuin's "Lathe of Heaven." It was simply fantastic. One wonders why, on occasion, they can't seem to produce even a few excellent movies. And it has nothing to do with cost. Many great stories could be produced for less than the crap they put out.

 

[darth_elmo]

The same thing with <i>Sliders</i>. It started as a Fox show, lasted a few seasons, was cancelled, and was eventually picked up by the Sci-Fi Channel.

 

[specfiction]

I agree with you about Babylon 5, probably the best TV SF ever. However, the SF channel didn't do it, it was a British production.

 

[specfiction]

The only reason I used Asimov was because I read somewhere of his doing just that; walking into a publisher and plopping a ms down, then discussing it. Unfortunately, I don't have the particulars, but I got the impression it was around the time he was a grad student in Chem at Columbia. <br /><br />I presented that story because the air-of-it demonstrates how publishing has changed. Try to do anything like that today.<br /><br />Now as for old school mainstream SF (not pulp) John Wyndam, Nevel Shutes, Pierre Boulle, etc. etc. <br /><br />And, by the way, SF isn't considered literature today either. Just about every friend I have has told me they don't read it (I know they used to). When I told them I was writing SF, they were very disappointed in me. When I started talking to agents and publishers, I began to understand why.<br /><br />PS: The science books that Asimov wrote (at least the ones I've seen) were popular science, not really text books in the sense that one used them for a rigorous science course.<br />

 

[jmilsom]

Yes. I agree with most of your points. I have read hundreds of SciFi books. As there is little new on the market I find myself focussing on older authors and works written between 1950 and 1980. I figure that there are hundreds of good books from this period I have yet to read. But, of course, much of this is no longer entirely relevant and I would love to see some new work in this style that give us alternative viewpoints on where our society is going. I would love to see a newer "Stand of Zanzibar" type work for instance. The dearth of more contemporary works in this vein is indeed troublesome. <br /><br />Our current global 'gotta make a profit' system seems to be stifling innovation and creativity across the board. There are many threads on a range of subjects on SDC lamenting the narrowing of creative space in our society. I heard Pink Floyd's "The Wall" a couple of days ago on the radio and found myself wondering what lyrics would fit best today.<br /><br />"All in all we are quite content to be bricks in the wall. Actually most of us are convinced that being a brick is good and that we will be safe as bricks. As a brick we can be good productive pieces of the wall and make plenty of money. Bu**er creativity and free thought."<br /><br />Ahh. Got carried away there. Hmmm. Why is it that SciFi is marginalised? What is it in our society that prevents the masses from taking future fiction seriously? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[specfiction]

This will sound like a conspiracy theory, but...<br /><br />I t is hard to market to any group that is statistically not well defined. Creative people are hard to “tell” what to like. Therefore, in a society where the designation "consumer" has been made a badge of honor over years of constant "training," mostly by TV marketeers, they've created a truly well defined group. People are "told" what to buy, "told" what is good, and in many ways, "told" how to think. It almost conjures up images of “Clock Work Orange" where the character is "taught" how to respond to queues--the perfect marketing audience.<br /><br />In such a society (I should also add, that in general, US society has taken a hard turn away from science, and has embraced rhetoric and superstition 'cause it's more "fun") a sense of wonder is at a premium.<br /><br />People (readers) need to be less compliant and more adventurous. Stop taking “professional” spin artists word for everything. Guess what, you may have a different opinion. Stop thinking that those not endorsed by big-buck marketers are somehow scammers or sub-par. The Marketeers quickly change their minds when you pay them. You can pay $500 for a review on Bookwire—Poof , instant credibility. <br />

 

[specfiction]

>If this were not so, there most likely would not be college courses devoted to the subject, which nowadays is pretty commonplace.<br /><br />Yes, I know someone who teaches such a course, and almost everything she reviews is more tha 15 years old, and most of it mainstream.

 

[dragon04]

I loved each and every Foundation book Asimov wrote.<br /><br />CE said :<br /><br /><i>I also didn't like it that Psychohistory was not going to be the method by which this restoration was going to occur.</i><br /><br />Actually, I thought it was cool that the Gaians implanted Psychohistory. And it was a neat tie in with his Robot Novels. IIRC, it was in Prelude to Foundation, (or Forward Foundation?) that it was revealed that R. Daneel Olivaw was the prime mover in Seldon's eventual creation of Psychohistory.<br /><br />Asimov created an onion. I had truly hoped that he would write a sequel to Foundation and Earth to further "identify" the mysterious and enigmatic outsiders who were inferred as mentalically controling the Gaians, who in turn were robots, who in turn set up Psychohistory.<br /><br />And then the revelation of Golan Trevize that the Seldon Plan was bogus. It was a great ride. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[specfiction]

My personal favorite was one you hear little about. I consider it his very best, "The Gods Themselves."

 

[spacefire]

One of my favourite subgenres is Historical Sci Fi, which uswually involves time travel. Poul Anderson's books come to mind.<br />Now I'm reading "1632", about a West Virgina town translated to Europe in said year.<br />The book is available free online. It's pretty good, but he makes certain inner-thought passages more complicated than they should be.<br />It also has a sequel, I forgot its name, that was the one I found first at B&N.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[yevaud]

Either 1633, or "The Galileo Affair." I've read them, and they aren't too bad. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[specfiction]

If anyone is interested in hard SF, my ebook (soon to be in print), Proteus Rising, is available on my website which is listed in my profile. I'd love some feedback, especially by science and society-interested folk such as yourselves.

 

[usmcsf0331]

I just read both the first few chapters from Proteus Rising, and also the free portion of The End of the World short story. Bravo...

 

[specfiction]

usmcsf0331:<br /><br />Thanks, I appreciate your interest. I've been reading SF for a long time. Over that time I've been a practicing scientist and then became involved in various tech companies. I worked in AI, neural nets, Kalman Filters, Classifiers, etc. The idea of conscious self-awareness has always fascinated me because it's like nothing else we see in nature.<br /><br />I found that SF, at least as I understand it, has given me a way to express that fascination.<br />

 

[specfiction]

A lot of what's happening between George and Joanne (social and political alienation) unfolds as we get farther into the story. The tech and venue of the story also expand and become faster as the reader starts to understand what the protagonists are up against. As for Will, I’ve taken a few turns up ahead. Both 2001 and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress left me wanting more—here we get it.<br /><br />Also, the password (trialdownld--11 characters) had a length glitch, it's fixed now--try again.

 

[specfiction]

Several of you asked about when Proteus Rising would be out in print. I'm happy to say that it's now in print. To find out more, go to:<br /><br />http://www.speculativefictionreview.com/Ads/ProteusAd.asp

 

[djtt]

great thread <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <br />i am going to check out your stuff spec, and i'd like to get in touch about some other things later<br />keep up the good work with your site!

 

[djtt]

first chapter looks promising!

 

[specfiction]

I agree that much of hard SF (what little there is) has migrated to cross-genre fiction. I think that's a very good thing for a couple of reasons. <br /><br />First, I'd like to see hard SF more accessible to mainstream readers because along with a realistic portrayal of "real" speculative science, I like seeing the context of the story, the world, and the characters involved be realistically rendered. After all, the scientific culture is one of the cornerstones of western civilization. It is rich not only in the gadgets it produces, but in the worldview that it purports. Anybody who has read Lem or Shutes or Haldeman or Greg Bear walks away affected by more than an admiration of their tech-sense.<br /><br />Second, I'd like to see more scientists, engineers, military people, etc. writing science fiction. It's very interesting to get the perspective and love of the scientific culture into fiction by people who have actually done it. Just like it's interesting to read a crime novel by a lawyer. There’s just too little of that out there.<br />

 

[specfiction]

I know someone mentioned this earlier, but one of the things that happened due to the rise of hard SF in the 50's through the 80's was readers getting into science. I clearly remember in the 70's NASA advertizing on TV for astronauts using the cast of Star Trek. I was an engineer at the time and applied for a mission specialist job. I knew when filling out the application--where it said, "how many PhD's do you have?"--that my chances weren't good. The rejection notice came soon after that.

 

[hracctsold]

Yea, <br />That can be a real bummer!! But I bet you didn't know that all those multiple PhD's were watching the same shows as you? That could be educational in a way, I suspect, or really cast some doubt on the nature of THEIR degrees.