The Physics and Requirements of a Deep Space Galleon

[flyer456654]

There are tons of different posts about how to build a spaceship and there are even more posts postulating at the FTL engines but no one has really posted anything about the requirements of a spaceship. I will post my problems and subsequent solutions to deep space vessals and perhaps those with larger brains than I could surmise better ways. Lets do number form

1) What is the amount of people in a community that is needed for healthy social interactions?
2) Given the above answer, what size ship is needed to facilitate the needs of this population?
3) Given the size of the ship needed, what is the required rotations to generate 1G of gravity (no constant propulsion here)?
4) What is the food production capacity (given in acre equivilants) to feed the population? What type of food production will prevail, hydroponic, grow tubes, or large enclosed farms?
5) What type of powerplant will give you enough power for 50 consecutive years of use?
6) How do you defend against radiation?
7) How do you communicate with Earth during the trip?
8) Lastly, how do you make this project profitable, or a least affordable?

My Answers
1) I believe that a community of 1000 people is needed to keep healthy living conditions. This allows a large enough population that no one knows everyone extreamely well but a small enough population that everyone knows eachother. This means that during a single roll call, everyone will know if someone is missing. The population should be those in their 20s-30s and comprised primarily of single people. This allows for healthy relationship development.
2) Given the above number of 1000 people, I believe the ship will need approximately 1 cubic acre of living space for everyone 1 human or 43000 feet^3. This will allow the people to have a feeling of being in the open since it would make the ship quite large. This also allows for the production of foodstuffs for the entire population.
3) I have no idea...not a physics person.
4) I believe that a combonation of actual farming and hydroponics would be the best situation. Being able to just walk on farmland would give a peace of mind to the crew. Since the ship will have 1 cubic acre per person, there will be ample room for the half acre needed to feed each person every year. Livestock should also be brought onboard to ensure a healthy and nutritious diet (opting to real creatures would be better for cloning due to companionship).
5) The obvious choice for powerplant would have to be nuclear. It is the only one currently available that can produce the amount of energy needed to sustain the ship and yet still be light enough.
6) I would place all the water needed for the ship, drinking, watering, showers, and other needs on the outside wall. It would encompass the entire ship in a 1 1/2 foot of water. Water is known to be one of the best radiation dampers out there and thus can be used for both radiation sheilding and life sustainance.
7) Communication with earth would optimally be done with laser connections. A powerful consistant beam of light that transferred to earth and a sister beam coming from earth to transfer information to the ship.
8) I have no idea, but the use of a asteriod would appear to be the cheapest way to do it.

Basically, I want to know not how to build a ship, but the requirements of said ship. What does everyone think?

 

[planetling]

Re: The Physics and Requirements of a Deep Space Gallon

Before I read that you suggest the use of an astroid as it would appear to be the cheapest way, I though of an astroid as possibly being the easiest way.

My initial reaction to this thread was, it's too bad that we will never realize an ark of this magnitude. But the dreamers of today are the doers of tomorrow.

Whatever size this monstrosity may be, it seems that either population control will need to be enforced, or drop off points will need to be plotted before overcrowding occurs. I hope that the technology will allow for holo-decks to mimick everything that we will leave behind and also so that we will not forget where we humans came from.

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Re: The Physics and Requirements of a Deep Space Gallon

Deep Space Gallon = Deep Space Galleon?

 

[bdewoody]

Re: The Physics and Requirements of a Deep Space Gallon

Deep Space Gallon = Deep Space Galleon?

LOL they can't spell but they want to build a space ark. What a world.

 

[neutrino78x]

Re: The Physics and Requirements of a Deep Space Gallon

Wish we had a "thank" button on this forum so I could thank boris, lol.

And, I think 1000 people is a HUGE ship. An aircraft carrier has a crew of 5,000. A nuclear submarine has a crew of 120 (including officers).

Well first of all, I think if it is a truly deep space ship, like it goes between stars, using physics we understand today, that journey would take years, so the crew would be in stasis or something for most of the journey.

But I think the average crew of a military star ship in the far future would be 100-300 people. USN Arleigh Burke Class Destroyers have about 300. If there are more than that, they are probably passengers for colonization.

--Brian

 

[Couerl]

Re: The Physics and Requirements of a Deep Space Gallon

Building big spaceships is a waste of time, money and resources.. It's akin to building the Great Wall of China or Maginot line, virtually out of date before they were finished. If you're going to send actual people on long journeys like this then best would be to send frozen eggs ready to be automatically fertilized in what amounts to a big refrigerator. Once the ship nears its destination then the eggs can be incubated and little humans grown and deposited on surface at "birth". Then it's just a matter of a few robots caring for them until they mature.. Total size of ship needed for this would be much smaller than any of these imaginary behemoths and if it turns out something bad along the way happens you haven't really lost anything. The technology for an artificial womb is a lot closer than some giant asteroid with a 1000 perpetually bored to death people on it. :geek:

 

[flyer456654]

Re: The Physics and Requirements of a Deep Space Gallon

Deep Space Gallon = Deep Space Galleon?

LOL they can't spell but they want to build a space ark. What a world.

I'm a product of the American school system...I cannot spell very well but I can dream. I'm sorry that I wrote this at my job because it was a very quick thought and question. I did not have the time or desire to run it through spellcheck so I figured it wouldn't really matter seeing as the purpose of my post was SPACE not SPELLING. I do appreciate the three people that decided to actually post on the idea and not the spelling. And yes i did spell Galleon wrong and thanks for pointing it our Boris, it was bdewoody's comment that ticked me off.

But back to the post at hand, while I have a quick moment at work (aka please excuse the spelling). I believe that stasis is remarkably far away, and with the distances we are talking and the years we are talking, there is no way catastrophe will not happen at least once. AKA you need actual people on board to deal with emergancy situations. Thus my belief that sending seeding ships will not work. What if there is a major glitch in the software (mars orbitor anyone), and the AI stop doing basic maintainance. The entire ship becomes a waste. It takes actual people to make actual decisions and quick reactions.

I believe the only way, with current and foreseeable technology, will be a large craft. Yes, the overall construction of a large craft is useless, hence my recommendation of an asteroid. We don't actually have to build anything, we just need to dig into it. Heck, most of the digging might be done during the trip and not just at a stand still. Just throw the equipment on the surface of the asteroid and dig during transit.

I recommended 1000 people so that they wouldn't be bored. With that amount of people the diversity would be great. It allows healthy social interaction. Also, through stringent population controls, the population would remain somewhere between 1000-2000 people.

I agree that the average crew of a military starship will be around 100-300 people, but I think the population of a intersteller colonization craft, will have to be much higher. I like the idea of rotating stasis. 1000 people total, 250 people out of stasis for 6-12 months at a time. This would be an interesting thing.

 

[orionrider]

Re: The Physics and Requirements of a Deep Space Gallon

there is no way catastrophe will not happen at least once [...] you need actual people on board

Actually, it is the contrary. People make mistakes. Machines don't.
Voyager is doing fine even after so many years.

The remainder of what you propose is very much like your spelling, it needs some correcting.

 

[flyer456654]

Re: The Physics and Requirements of a Deep Space Gallon

there is no way catastrophe will not happen at least once [...] you need actual people on board

Actually, it is the contrary. People make mistakes. Machines don't.
Voyager is doing fine even after so many years.

The remainder of what you propose is very much like your spelling, it needs some correcting.

Voyager is an amazing piece of equipment. However, it like everything else has its flaws. I seem to remember that not to long ago there was a major blip in communications from one of the Voyagers...and if it wasn't for humans we would have lost contact with her. Yes, most everything should be done by machines, they make considerably (darn near 0) mistakes. But like everything else they do occasionally break...especially after 20-40 years of consecutive work. Just like a car. If you don't take car of your car, your car will not take care of you. You have to service it, change its oil, rotate the tires. I still believe that humans would have to be onboard and working with the ship to ensure success. Otherwise, a single blip or error in programing (not the machines fault but human error in writing software) and the whole mission is dead. With a human on board, they could notice the problem and fix it (where a machine would just follow the code it has in it, a human can think abstractly). And you are absolutely right, the rest of my proposal is in dramatic need of correcting. Though I still think that living, breathing, and working human beings have to be on hand.

 

[Space_pioneer]

Re: The Physics and Requirements of a Deep Space Gallon

Just freeze everyone and be done with it.

 

[neutrino78x]

Re: The Physics and Requirements of a Deep Space Gallon

Just freeze everyone and be done with it.

Exactly. That's actually one of those technologies we should be pursuing more vigorously, ways to put people in stasis for long periods of time. Because if you go 4 light-years at only 10% the speed of light, that is 40 years. So either you need to develop stasis, or you need a faster rocket.

--Brian

 

[scottb50]

Re: The Physics and Requirements of a Deep Space Gallon

Deep Space Gallon = Deep Space Galleon?

LOL they can't spell but they want to build a space ark. What a world.

I'm a product of the American school system...I cannot spell very well but I can dream. I'm sorry that I wrote this at my job because it was a very quick thought and question. I did not have the time or desire to run it through spellcheck so I figured it wouldn't really matter seeing as the purpose of my post was SPACE not SPELLING. I do appreciate the three people that decided to actually post on the idea and not the spelling. And yes i did spell Galleon wrong and thanks for pointing it our Boris, it was bdewoody's comment that ticked me off.

But back to the post at hand, while I have a quick moment at work (aka please excuse the spelling). I believe that stasis is remarkably far away, and with the distances we are talking and the years we are talking, there is no way catastrophe will not happen at least once. AKA you need actual people on board to deal with emergancy situations. Thus my belief that sending seeding ships will not work. What if there is a major glitch in the software (mars orbitor anyone), and the AI stop doing basic maintainance. The entire ship becomes a waste. It takes actual people to make actual decisions and quick reactions.

I believe the only way, with current and foreseeable technology, will be a large craft. Yes, the overall construction of a large craft is useless, hence my recommendation of an asteroid. We don't actually have to build anything, we just need to dig into it. Heck, most of the digging might be done during the trip and not just at a stand still. Just throw the equipment on the surface of the asteroid and dig during transit.

I recommended 1000 people so that they wouldn't be bored. With that amount of people the diversity would be great. It allows healthy social interaction. Also, through stringent population controls, the population would remain somewhere between 1000-2000 people.

I agree that the average crew of a military starship will be around 100-300 people, but I think the population of a intersteller colonization craft, will have to be much higher. I like the idea of rotating stasis. 1000 people total, 250 people out of stasis for 6-12 months at a time. This would be an interesting thing.

Follow the wavy lines, they will lead you out of the darkness, or maybe not.