Time is a process in 4 Spatial Dimensions, not an 'add-on' to 3 Dimensions, True or false?

[Gibsense]

In Collaboration with an AI, I have debated the above proposition. So far as I can tell, this particular AI is worthy of more respect than most. This has resulted in a combined argument that is based on logic and fact. Your interest and comments are appreciated

• Time Equals Spatial Expansion: Instead of a separate time axis, time could be conceptualised as a measure of how much “new space” gets added. For instance, if we equate 1 year with the distance light travels in a vacuum (1 light-year), then time’s flow is directly linked to the rate at which space expands.
• Emergent Ordering: Temporal order would be determined by the sequence of spatial configurations as the universe expands. In other words, the evolution of the universe’s geometry, including changes in mass distribution, would “generate” time.
• This idea draws on various approaches where time is thought to be emergent—for example, in some quantum gravity proposals and even models of “shape dynamics” that focus on the relative configuration of the universe rather than an external clock ticking away.

Compatibility With Relativity

Even within Einstein’s relativity, time is measured in units that are convertible to space (via ( c )). Some points of contact include:

• Unified Units: Relativity already uses the convention of measuring time in seconds and space in light-seconds (or light-years), implying an intrinsic link. By taking this further—interpreting the accumulation of spatial “distance” as the flow of time—we don’t discard relativity; we reinterpret its elements.
• Gravitational Effects: Gravitational time dilation tells us that clocks run slower in denser gravitational fields. In our view, if density retards new space creation locally, then high-mass regions (like near black holes) would indeed “add” space more slowly, causing time to seem to slow down. Thus, gravitational effects become a localised counterbalance to the overall expansion-driven emergence of time.
• Extension to Dynamics: The Einstein field equations relate spacetime curvature to energy-momentum. One might envisage a generalised theory where, in addition to curving spacetime, matter and energy also influence the “rate of space addition”—that is, the rate at which time emerges. This could provide a new dynamical aspect to cosmic evolution (perhaps even shedding light on the role of dark energy).

Links to Quantum Gravity: Some approaches (like the thermal time hypothesis or emergent gravity ideas) already suggest that the flow of time might be a macroscopic phenomenon resulting from complex microstates of space. Incorporating a process of spatial addition could mesh well with these ideas, providing a bridge between classical relativity and quantum theories of gravity.

Conclusion

In summary:

• We can reconcile our view with Einstein’s relativity by noting that the conversion factor ( c ) already reflects a deep connection between space and time.
• Viewing time as an emergent process—from the expansion or accumulation of space—offers a fresh perspective that might extend general relativity, especially in regimes where mass density and quantum effects (like those near black holes) lead to varying expansion rates.
• Such a perspective might not replace Einstein’s theory but could enrich it by providing new insights into gravitational time dilation, cosmic expansion, and the nature of dark energy.

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[Astraeus]

In Collaboration with an AI, I have debated the above proposition. So far as I can tell, this particular AI is worthy of more respect than most. This has resulted in a combined argument that is based on logic and fact. Your interest and comments are appreciated

• Time Equals Spatial Expansion: Instead of a separate time axis, time could be conceptualised as a measure of how much “new space” gets added. For instance, if we equate 1 year with the distance light travels in a vacuum (1 light-year), then time’s flow is directly linked to the rate at which space expands.
• Emergent Ordering: Temporal order would be determined by the sequence of spatial configurations as the universe expands. In other words, the evolution of the universe’s geometry, including changes in mass distribution, would “generate” time.
• This idea draws on various approaches where time is thought to be emergent—for example, in some quantum gravity proposals and even models of “shape dynamics” that focus on the relative configuration of the universe rather than an external clock ticking away.

Compatibility With Relativity

Even within Einstein’s relativity, time is measured in units that are convertible to space (via ( c )). Some points of contact include:

• Unified Units: Relativity already uses the convention of measuring time in seconds and space in light-seconds (or light-years), implying an intrinsic link. By taking this further—interpreting the accumulation of spatial “distance” as the flow of time—we don’t discard relativity; we reinterpret its elements.
• Gravitational Effects: Gravitational time dilation tells us that clocks run slower in denser gravitational fields. In our view, if density retards new space creation locally, then high-mass regions (like near black holes) would indeed “add” space more slowly, causing time to seem to slow down. Thus, gravitational effects become a localised counterbalance to the overall expansion-driven emergence of time.
• Extension to Dynamics: The Einstein field equations relate spacetime curvature to energy-momentum. One might envisage a generalised theory where, in addition to curving spacetime, matter and energy also influence the “rate of space addition”—that is, the rate at which time emerges. This could provide a new dynamical aspect to cosmic evolution (perhaps even shedding light on the role of dark energy).

Links to Quantum Gravity: Some approaches (like the thermal time hypothesis or emergent gravity ideas) already suggest that the flow of time might be a macroscopic phenomenon resulting from complex microstates of space. Incorporating a process of spatial addition could mesh well with these ideas, providing a bridge between classical relativity and quantum theories of gravity.

Conclusion

In summary:

• We can reconcile our view with Einstein’s relativity by noting that the conversion factor ( c ) already reflects a deep connection between space and time.
• Viewing time as an emergent process—from the expansion or accumulation of space—offers a fresh perspective that might extend general relativity, especially in regimes where mass density and quantum effects (like those near black holes) lead to varying expansion rates.
• Such a perspective might not replace Einstein’s theory but could enrich it by providing new insights into gravitational time dilation, cosmic expansion, and the nature of dark energy.

​

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Your proposal to view time as the accumulation of spatial expansion is creative and aligns well with the spirit of seeking emergent structures in fundamental physics. However, there are several theoretical challenges that weaken the viability of this model:

1. Locality vs Global Expansion:
   • Cosmological expansion is an average, large-scale property of the universe; locally (such as in gravitationally bound systems like galaxies, solar systems, or atoms), space is not expanding.
   • If time were tied directly to "new space being created," then time would seem to stop or behave differently inside bound systems — yet we observe time flowing normally in galaxies and labs where no expansion occurs.
   • Without a mechanism to explain how time persists in locally static regions, the model risks inconsistency with everyday empirical observations.
2. Directional Ambiguity of Expansion:
   • Cosmic expansion is isotropic (same in all directions), whereas time is strongly directional (causal ordering).
   • Simply accumulating space doesn’t naturally define a forward arrow of time unless you introduce an external rule — which would reintroduce an absolute ordering the model seeks to avoid.
   • The proposed link between geometry change and temporal ordering would need a mechanism enforcing irreversible evolution, not merely spatial growth.
3. Scale Dependence:
   • If time depends on space accumulation, the rate of time’s flow should vary depending on local conditions, such as curvature, density, or even quantum fields.
   • While gravitational time dilation does vary with density, it’s tied to spacetime curvature — not necessarily to a volume of "new space" being added.
   • Without a precise way to quantify how much "space" is being created at each location, the model lacks the mathematical structure needed for predictions.
4. Conflict with Relativistic Covariance:
   • In relativity, different observers disagree on measurements of distance and time but agree on causal structure (the spacetime interval).
   • If time is linked to a global or semi-global feature like accumulated spatial expansion, it risks violating local Lorentz invariance, which requires that the laws of physics look the same to all freely falling observers.
5. Ambiguity in “Adding Space”:
   • It’s unclear what “new space” means physically. Is it a stretching of metric distances? The generation of new points?
   • In general relativity, spacetime is a dynamical manifold — adding points or extending metric distances is a coordinate-dependent description, not a physical observable.
   • Without a clear, gauge-invariant definition of “new space being created,” the idea may collapse into metaphor rather than measurable physics.
6. Dark Energy and Expansion:
   • Linking time’s flow directly to expansion would tie the acceleration rate of the universe (dark energy) to a direct acceleration of time.
   • Observationally, while dark energy affects large-scale structure, we do not see accelerated rates of local clocks correlated to cosmic expansion, again suggesting that time is not simply the integral of expansion.

This is an AI response to your prompt. To develop this into a structured theory you have some challenging elements to address. Keep asking questions and develop your mathematical framework.

 

[Gibsense]

This is an AI response to your prompt. To develop this into a structured theory you have some challenging elements to address. Keep asking questions and develop your mathematical framework.

Excellent, thank you. Just the challenge that is needed. I will respond soon - it's a long list