Time Travel Cartoon With a Flaw

[Leovinus]

<p>Here's a time travel cartoon that has a serious design flaw.&nbsp;&nbsp; According to the cartoon, if you travel in time you cannot return.&nbsp; Thus each time around the circle, you add another time traveller.&nbsp; But if that were the case, then you would have started with an infinite number of travellers.</p><p>Is this proof that time travel (at least backwards time travel) is impossible? </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[lildreamer]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Here's a time travel cartoon that has a serious design flaw.&nbsp;&nbsp; According to the cartoon, if you travel in time you cannot return.&nbsp; Thus each time around the circle, you add another time traveller.&nbsp; But if that were the case, then you would have started with an infinite number of travellers.Is this proof that time travel (at least backwards time travel) is impossible? &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; <br />Posted by Leovinus</DIV><br /><br />great site - love the topics they pick thanks for the link.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Mee_n_Mac]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Here's a time travel cartoon that has a serious design flaw.&nbsp;&nbsp; According to the cartoon, if you travel in time you cannot return.&nbsp; Thus each time around the circle, you add another time traveller.&nbsp; But if that were the case, then you would have started with an infinite number of travellers.Is this proof that time travel (at least backwards time travel) is impossible? &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; <br />Posted by <strong>Leovinus</strong></DIV><br /><br />Well there is a well respected law that would seem to prohibit the creation of mass/energy&nbsp;(in the past) so I think your cartoon is on solid ground.&nbsp; Then again the "<em>Time Tunnel</em>" could send people into the past and bring them back without creating an infinite amount of travellers.&nbsp; Since that was done with film and actors, I think&nbsp;it has to be a "more real" proof&nbsp;than a cartoon.&nbsp; Pretty tricky stuff this time travel is. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-----------------------------------------------------</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Ask not what your Forum Software can do do on you,</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">Ask it to, please for the love of all that's Holy, <strong>STOP</strong> !</font></p> </div>

 

[Leovinus]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well there is a well respected law that would seem to prohibit the creation of mass/energy&nbsp;(in the past) so I think your cartoon is on solid ground.&nbsp; Then again the "Time Tunnel" could send people into the past and bring them back without creating an infinite amount of travellers.&nbsp; Since that was done with film and actors, I think&nbsp;it has to be a "more real" proof&nbsp;than a cartoon.&nbsp; Pretty tricky stuff this time travel is. <br /> Posted by Mee_n_Mac</DIV></p><p>I was thinking about the cartoon.&nbsp; Assuming the following scenario:</p><ul><li>Guy decides to visit dinosaurs and so presses the "send me back" button.</li><li>Because the guy cannot return from dinosaurs, he is stuck in past.</li><li>Therefore, there is no future guy to go back in time 30 seconds to save himself.&nbsp; The guy exists only in dinoville.</li></ul><p>Ok, so we have to modify the scenario a bit so that it is possible for the guy to visit himself 30 seconds in the past.</p><ul><li>Guy decides to visit dinoville and sets a timer to fire him back in 30 minutes.</li><li>Shortly after setting the timer, he realizes his mistake and attempts to stop the timer but he can't.&nbsp; But he can reset the destation time from dinoville to 30 minutes and 30 seconds ago.</li><li>The timer fires off and he visits himself 30 seconds before he sets the timer.</li><li>He convinces his past self not to set the timer. </li></ul><p>The problem with that scenario is that the past self was alone and with his future self at the exact same moment.&nbsp; He also both set the timer and did not set the timer at the same time.</p><p>Therefore, time travel into the past has to be impossible. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[lildreamer]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I was thinking about the cartoon.&nbsp; Assuming the following scenario:Guy decides to visit dinosaurs and so presses the "send me back" button.Because the guy cannot return from dinosaurs, he is stuck in past.Therefore, there is no future guy to go back in time 30 seconds to save himself.&nbsp; The guy exists only in dinoville.Ok, so we have to modify the scenario a bit so that it is possible for the guy to visit himself 30 seconds in the past.Guy decides to visit dinoville and sets a timer to fire him back in 30 minutes.Shortly after setting the timer, he realizes his mistake and attempts to stop the timer but he can't.&nbsp; But he can reset the destation time from dinoville to 30 minutes and 30 seconds ago.The timer fires off and he visits himself 30 seconds before he sets the timer.He convinces his past self not to set the timer. The problem with that scenario is that the past self was alone and with his future self at the exact same moment.&nbsp; He also both set the timer and did not set the timer at the same time.Therefore, time travel into the past has to be impossible. <br />Posted by Leovinus</DIV><br /><br />Thus an inifinite loop - but here's the question is he the only one caught in this loop or is now and forever the universe is&nbsp; caught in the loop and a half our of time is contiguously played out for every one in the cosmos....</p><p>another scenario is everytime you jump back your jumping back into another parallel time line not your own - thus you can't perturb your original time line but can effect the events in another parallel time line.</p><p>Just as you outlined - if he thought at that very moment he realizes its one way and resets the timer then yes the scenario is still plausible...</p><p>how about everytime he goes back 30 seconds he actuallys moves the event back by 30 secs...so after so many iterations he might encounter ackk,..ggrrr....(babblle filllter force from...key bbor)...<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-yell.gif" border="0" alt="Yell" title="Yell" /></p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[weeman]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Here's a time travel cartoon that has a serious design flaw.&nbsp;&nbsp; According to the cartoon, if you travel in time you cannot return.&nbsp; Thus each time around the circle, you add another time traveller.&nbsp; But if that were the case, then you would have started with an infinite number of travellers.Is this proof that time travel (at least backwards time travel) is impossible? &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; <br />Posted by Leovinus</DIV><br /><br />I would say the cartoon only addresses one type of time travel: When the traveler goes back in time, he creates an infinite number of himself because he is infinitely going back each time to warn himself. </p><p>However, as lildreamer stated, there's also the possibility of parallel universes coming into the equation. If you hop in a time machine, you will leave this universe and enter a parallel universe, meaning this universe that you left behind is not affected by your actions. </p><p>Theoretical physicists have also stated that if an event has already happened up to this point in time, then you cannot go back in time and change it, thus solving the Grandfather paradox. Basically, if your grandfather is alive and well right now, then you cannot go back in time and kill him, because he was alive when you left the present to come back into the past. When you try to kill him, something will stop you.</p><p>In other words, if you have already set the timer on your time machine, even if you go back in time to warn yourself, you will not be able to stop yourself. Something will some how stop you from warning yourself, thus meaning you will never be able to stop the timer once you've already started it. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Techies: We do it in the dark. </font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>"Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.</strong><strong>" -Albert Einstein </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[Leovinus]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Thus an inifinite loop - but here's the question is he the only one caught in this loop or is now and forever the universe is&nbsp; caught in the loop and a half our of time is contiguously played out for every one in the cosmos....another scenario is everytime you jump back your jumping back into another parallel time line not your own - thus you can't perturb your original time line but can effect the events in another parallel time line.Just as you outlined - if he thought at that very moment he realizes its one way and resets the timer then yes the scenario is still plausible...how about everytime he goes back 30 seconds he actuallys moves the event back by 30 secs...so after so many iterations he might encounter ackk,..ggrrr....(babblle filllter force from...key bbor)...&nbsp; <br /> Posted by lildreamer</DIV></p><p>I'm not sure about this parallel universe thing when time travelling.&nbsp; If all the dimensions in 4-dimensional space (x,y,z, and time) are equivalent, then you should be able to return to any set of coordinates without having to invent a universe to do so.&nbsp; For examplle, if I leave my house in the morning and return to it at night, I haven't created a parallel universe (yes I know that the house is on a spinning earth and whipping around the&nbsp; Sun and flying through the universe so that I'm not returning to the exact x,y,z). &nbsp; Similarly, I ought to be able&nbsp; to leave my house at 8am, have lunch at 12pm, and return back to my house at 8am without creating a parallel universe.</p><p>Let's follow the sequence of events:</p><p>8:00 - I am alone in my house and I leave </p><p>12:00 -&nbsp; I havelunch, then go to the time machine and go back to 8am</p><p>8:00 - There are two of us leaving the house</p><p>12:00 - There are two of us having lunch.&nbsp; The original time traveller stays behind, and the first time traveller goes back to 8am</p><p>Question:&nbsp; Does the time traveller return to the first 8am so that now 2 people are in the house, or the 2nd 8am and now there are 3 people in the house?</p><p>I think the only proper answer is that the first 8am never happened.&nbsp; At the first 8am, my future self is already there. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>