Unique Interplanetary Propulsion Method

[rogers_buck]

The thing about rocket fuel is that once you burn it, it is gone. What if the fuel itself were reuseable?<br /><br />Here's an example of what I mean. Suppose you had a mole of 10gram rubberish balls that each contained a micro ion propulsion drive. The little rubber balls might each contain a small radioactive power source. The balls would be capable of interracting with each other via a network and could also accept commands from outside. <br /><br />To make a long story short, the balls would be commanded to bounce off the back of a payload that requires acceleration. Each time a ball strikes the payload it would impart its momentum to the payload thereby accelerating it. The collision would have to be just below the energy level that would destroy the balls. So some would be moving much slower than others to strike the target at that threshold energy as it accelerates. After the balls are boinged out, they would then regroup and start the process of accelerating all over again.<br /><br />For this to be a viable technology, the balls would have to be able to raise their energy levels without fuel by taking advantage of things you cn do with tiny rubber balls that you wouldn't want to do with space craft. For example, skimming over the lunar surface for a tidally intense gravitational boost.<br /><br />What would make this work is the sheer number of these tiny little boosteroids. They could hang out in space for years storing a modest amount of energy that would equate to megajoules when integrated over their sheer numbers. <br /><br />Come to think of it, these little ball formations would be excellent at cleaning up near-earth space. They could venture at a highly eccentric orbit into the path of a satellite and steal some of its momentum sending the satellite into the earth's atmosphere and themselves into a slightly higher orbit.

 

[glutomoto]

Call it the El Kabong drive.<br /><br />boing boing boing boing !!!!!!<br /><br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rogers_buck]

I like rogers_buckyballs myself. I used the larger rubber ball as an example, but I would guess near nano-scale creations would be the best.<br /><br />Can you imagine how interesting that system would be from a computational standpoint? Each little ball could have its genetics to encode where it would be in the swarm. The swarm would then be commanded to a future intercept with the correct energy distribution pattern at the exact time. After imparting its energy, the swarm could take months to regain that energy.<br /><br />Any ideas what sort of methods might be used to "charge" the swarm? The best I can think of is a nano gyro for orientation and a small amount of nuclear material to generate nano-thrust. Also, the swarm could buz the surface of the moon, etc.. The physics is also fascinating.<br /><br />Reusable rocket fuel...

 

[spacefire]

one problem I see is that every time a swarm is used it will have to recharge its kinetic energy somehow and that will take time, so the payload accelerations are going to be rather sparse events. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[dragonous]

If this was possible I would do the propulsion this way, but rocket fuel and the other types of energy propulsion should do for now.

 

[rogers_buck]

Your right about that. But the nice thing about countless swarms of tiny robots are that they work on the cheap. Presumably there would be a great many of such swarms in constant regeneration and ready status.<br /><br />I have been thinking of a further refinement of the scheme. The goal would be to make the little critters even more usefull as fuel and simpler in their required technology. <br /><br />What came to mind was a lunar origin for spheres that are nothing more than tiny iron spheres with no brains at all. The spheres could be mined and manufactured right on the moon and then mass accelerated into earth-moon orbit. A lunar ground station would use an ion beam and radar/lidar to shape and accelerate the swarms for a future payload boost.<br /><br />The payload itself would employ a U-shaped energy transfer/accelerator chamber. The fast moving spherules would enter one end of the U-shaped chamber where they would be vectored through 180 degrees and accelerated out the other end of the U-shaped chamber. Double the whamy without skrunching the spheres.

 

[rogers_buck]

I think this is a much longer term solution and rockets, etc., will hold their own until the infastructure is in place. I'm thinking of this technology as a cheap reusable way to get large payloads to extreme locations at unprecedented velocities. If you read my previous post I think you'll agree that this might be the most practical use for the moon in terms of space transportation.<br /><br />Imagine a tremendous arc of these spheres in a swarm 1/4 AU in arc. Perhaps a total reaction mass of 10s of millions of tons. A probe with sphere store and forward capabilities might be sent on its way to Proxima Centauri and would be able to stop and enter orbit once there. The transit time might be a few decades.<br /><br />By store and forward, I mean the spheres would be glass coated and would be magnetically stopped and piled in storage tanks. They would then be accelerated out of the probe to slow it down.

 

[le3119]

That's a heck of a swarm of fuelbots! But wouldn't the "taking on" of the spheres instantly add to the probe's mass - adding to its inertia? Wouldn't this slow down acceleration then?

 

[nova_explored]

its called photon circular accretion. Take a swarm of photons, contain them, and disperse through various chambers circulating back on itself. Its perpetual...motion. i.e. atom smashers.<br /><br />okay thats pretty convoluted isn't it...?<br /><br />imagine a sphere, in it are these chambers which through a process narrow the path of photons, and in between the last and first in the circular path is where thanks to conservation of energy there is a quantified release of energy, but...thanks to the wonderful quantum mechanics of photons, that energy is in the form of particle while its wave finds equilibrium and the process begins again.<br /><br />okay...put another way. If you slow light down, which is physically possible as certain crystals are known to slow it by up to 90% its initial (and constant) velocity, when the photon reemerges from the field it immediately assumes its constant velocity, instanteneously, and that is on part of its wave/particle duality (for reasons still unknown though of course). but because of that duality the photon displays the same adherence to mechanical newtownian physics as everything else, hence, a return to its natural state requires a change in energy and that change becomes another form, a useable one. Keep the photon in a constant cycle and with enough you could literally move a mountain (or fly it anyway) <br /><br />unfortunately it would require a hell of a lot of photons in one place. truth is i don't know if any of that is true (except for the fact that light can be slowed by 90% by certain crystals..) or even possible, proabably not, but it sounds cool. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[rogers_buck]

Yes. The fuel is moving at a higher relative velocity than the payload in the same net direction. By stopping the fuel with magnetic fields, the forward momentum is imparted to the payload + sum of all fuel stopped. <br /><br />Imagine throwing a block of wood into the air and then letting it have it with a BB machine gun. Of course air resistance makes that an imperfect analogy, but so long as faster and faster BBs hit the block and stick it would continue to accelerate. The upper limit being determined by the ability to stop the BB. Eventually, the BB would vaporize or go straight through the block. Bouncing the BBs off is easier and good enough for interplanetary travel where aerobraking or braking swarms are available.

 

[rogers_buck]

Light reflecting off a solar sail imparts its mass equivalency energy calculated from the resulting doppler shift. Light entering a domain with a different index of refraction is assumes the speed of light in that material and there is no corresponding change in momentum as per the energy transfer function of the interface. If there is an impedence mismatch then the reflected component imparts energy as per the sail. Statically reflecting the light withing the new medium would not impart any energy if the reflection were perfect. If you kept these photons trapped for decades, when you did release them you would benifit by the energy equivalence of any resulting dopler shift. Energy is conserved.<br />

 

[vogon13]

Oh, just go all the way and embrace Orion Nuclear Pulse Propulsion.<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[darkenfast]

This reminds me of Robert L. Forward's laser powered starship. A huge array of solar powered lasers is focused on the sail of the ship. Deceleration is accomplished by seperating the sail into two parts; the laser beam is bounced off the jettisoned bit and focused back on the smaller core sail. Very "outside the box".

 

[barrykirk]

This sounds much more complicated than a simple warp drive.<br /><br /><Cmnd />Sarcasm Off.