What exactly is nothing?

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In my own modeling I've set the conditions of infinite Universe (U) as Big Crunch Vortex / Big Hole Vacuum / Big Mirror mirroring. With "nothing" being outside, "nothing" coming before, the thing is infinitely everywhere possible already and there is really nowhere and nothing it will expand into from some "Big Bang" excepting itself, thus holing itself like a big black hole. And the kind of gravity being talked about for the Big Crunch Vortex (Big Hole Vacuum) means a self mirroring to infinity. In that self mirroring to infinity, can you see a form of expansionism to infinity that in fact goes nowhere and into nothing but itself actually? An infinity of universes (u) (infinities of infinities) from a nakedly singular infinite Universe (U) that is the only real immovable object.... its irresistible force having to be solely toward and into itself (thus a contraction that is at once an expansion (and... balance)).

It's not going to stretch in an expansion outward from a point since it is infinitely everywhere and for all time to begin with. Someone might think, though, that the self mirroring should make it appear, and be, exactly the same everywhere and in everything. That someone would not understand the fractal of Chaos Theory nor the particle-wave of Quantum Mechanics. They would not understand the [[bottom / top]] basic, foundational, building block of multi-dimensionality, thus Multiverse. You see, the infinite Universe (U) is not only outside in (via Planck / Big Bang level horizon) to the infinity of its mirroring parallel universes (u), it is also -- at once -- inside out (via Planck / Big Bang level horizon) to them. (the trees are in the forest. The forest is in the trees.)

Nor would they understand the "time crystal" (not Google's but the nature's it models and demonstrates) or the real time "universal clock" (QM) endlessly ticking 'endless beginning' ('now'). Nor would that someone understand String Theory's foundational "vibrating" strings (which I see as the animate / action physic between singularities pairing (it would not surprise me if they -- either the singularities or the strings -- were at once Hawking's "baby universes" ( of which ours would be just one of mirrored infinities of them in infinitesimal broad and deep))).
 
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For sure Ugly cyclic might be the answer.
I also agree that Ugly cyclic is probably what happens if we have more than 1 BB area.
All best guess as to structure and infinity physics beyond that so no guess will be crazy.
IMO the prize goes to the person that can find a respectable reason for E that started it all.
And the winner is... (drumroll) :)
 

Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
My opinion is unchanged, either:

1. a word in common parlance, meaning a variety of things centred around something very small or inconsequential,
or,
2. a mathematical fiction, meaning something divided by a non-existent 'infinity'.

Cat :)
 
Aug 14, 2020
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For sure Ugly cyclic might be the answer.
I also agree that Ugly cyclic is probably what happens if we have more than 1 BB area.
All best guess as to structure and infinity physics beyond that so no guess will be crazy.
IMO the prize goes to the person that can find a respectable reason for E that started it all.
And the winner is... (drumroll) :)
That's funny. Per the time crystal (which Google is modeling) and real time universal clock (QM), and those vibrating strings (String Theory) and the fractals of Chaos Theory (if not the just realized "fractons"), it just "now" began (as in always in beginning.... "endless beginning"). Per these real physical things above, nothing comes before "now" (which Hawking also theorized with his unchanging -- midnight / morn -- clock at the center of the "Grand Central Station of the Universe") and nothing comes after. Always beginning and ending in a perfectly balanced parallelism in merry-go-round circling, it (the Universe (U) / Multiverse) continues. In total it is always oncoming from the depths of the Abyss; the horizon. In total it is always going away to the depths of the Abyss; the horizon. In total it is the smoothest flowing streaming of all, It does not cycle. It does not pulse. It does not jerk.

Funny that you can't feel the Big Crunch everywhere always in progress, nor perceive its alternate being, the Big Hole (everywhere always in progress). Nor sense the many worlds, the many universes. There is no more than one BB level horizon / no more than one Planck level horizon... it is (they are) "now". The infinite Universe (U) is "now". Even the unobservable infinity of finite / infinitesimal universes (u) are "now" constant (0 = 0 = 0.....). The parallels of infinity!

Freedom dies when peace corrupts into forgetfulness.
 
That's funny. Per the time crystal (which Google is modeling) and real time universal clock (QM), and those vibrating strings (String Theory) and the fractals of Chaos Theory (if not the just realized "fractons"), it just "now" began (as in always in beginning.... "endless beginning"). Per these real physical things above, nothing comes before "now" (which Hawking also theorized with his unchanging -- midnight / morn -- clock at the center of the "Grand Central Station of the Universe") and nothing comes after. Always beginning and ending in a perfectly balanced parallelism in merry-go-round circling, it (the Universe (U) / Multiverse) continues. In total it is always oncoming from the depths of the Abyss; the horizon. In total it is always going away to the depths of the Abyss; the horizon. In total it is the smoothest flowing streaming of all, It does not cycle. It does not pulse. It does not jerk.

Funny that you can't feel the Big Crunch everywhere always in progress, nor perceive its alternate being, the Big Hole (everywhere always in progress). Nor sense the many worlds, the many universes. There is no more than one BB level horizon / no more than one Planck level horizon... it is (they are) "now". The infinite Universe (U) is "now". Even the unobservable infinity of finite / infinitesimal universes (u) are "now" constant (0 = 0 = 0.....). The parallels of infinity!

Freedom dies when peace corrupts into forgetfulness.
For sure if time isn't a real thing then before doesn't exist.
Even if all we see is some weird freak event and forever doesn't exist then it's a pretty straight forward though pattern that BB's are infinite in infinity no matter how freakish the event is.

What impact those other BB area have on ours is best guess.
A few signs like dark flow and irregular expansion have clues about what will happen but each BB area might be it's own infinity that never interact.
Or they might interact on some grand scale and Ugly cyclic starts.

Very true on a measure of a universe being the size we see or not really the size we see.
If nothing can exist in our universe then all points (area between fluctuation) will be the same distance to all other points 0.
Easy for us to be in a universe with no real distance or the universe has distance if nothing isn't part of reality.
 

Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
Whatever other embellishments you might wish to add, can anyone actually disagree with post #128. Additions, maybe - but essential content?

1. word in common use for 'absent' or 'very small' et cetera. Anything you like in common usage. Negative of something. "I see nothing" = "I can't see anything"
"Nothing to declare". "Nothing in the box". "Nothing to say". "Nothing else".
Denial of existence = "it cannot be". Just common words without philosophy.

2. Abstract meaning mathematical zero.


What's wrong with one of those two choices?

Cat :)
 
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As I've said elsewhere and before, "Nothing is outside the Universe" (the BB level horizon).... "Therefore everything is outside the Universe" (the Planck level horizon). As I've said elsewhere and before, two manifestations of one and the same "horizon". Everything can be outside (inside out). Everything can be inside (outside in). Constant. Continuous. Nothing before. Nothing after. Just 'now'. Einstein's relativity of "past (-)-future (+)" never, ever, goes -- flows -- anywhere but to 'now' (0 = 0).

If you could live just about forever and had the capability, I'd bet you could travel toward the horizon forever and never get any closer to it than "now". That it would recede in a constant of opening before you (like any constant of horizon) and follow in a constant of closing behind you (like any constant of horizon).
 
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My opinion is unchanged, either:

1. a word in common parlance, meaning a variety of things centred around something very small or inconsequential,
or,
2. a mathematical fiction, meaning something divided by a non-existent 'infinity'.

Cat :)
With a medium of nothing as the smallest thing gravity and spooky action have a reason for instant communication.
All points in the universe become the same distance apart 0.
Traveling from the furthest point in the universe will still result in 0 travel.
Not for things trapped at C max that interact with every smallest point, they still go 0 distance but it takes time to do it.

JMO
 
Is space "I'm using the word as an area that can be occupied" something? If so then I believe that nothing can't be possible. Well if you believe in infinite space then its not possible. ALSO had a though earlier today. Is it possible to be absolutely still in space, as in to occupy one area of space without movement for a set amount of time.
Think of the empty room as potential negative energy.
It's partner positive potential energy (fluctuation) that is yet to exist.

step 1 and 2 towards everything.

An empty room can be filled to the brim with potential and still be nothing.
 
With a medium of nothing as the smallest thing gravity and spooky action have a reason for instant communication.
All points in the universe become the same distance apart 0.
Traveling from the furthest point in the universe will still result in 0 travel.
Not for things trapped at C max that interact with every smallest point, they still go 0 distance but it takes time to do it.

JMO
Well if nothing exists, and if we can keep getting smaller until it does it probably does at some scale.
Then time will be just A to B and all points in the universe will be A to B with nothing between them so no ruler can measure any true size.
Just the trip of going from A to B to C can be measured in time and it only an apparent distance.

Size of universe could easily be an illusion.
 
Jul 27, 2021
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Whatever other embellishments you might wish to add, can anyone actually disagree with post #128. Additions, maybe - but essential content?

1. word in common use for 'absent' or 'very small' et cetera. Anything you like in common usage. Negative of something. "I see nothing" = "I can't see anything"
"Nothing to declare". "Nothing in the box". "Nothing to say". "Nothing else".
Denial of existence = "it cannot be". Just common words without philosophy.

2. Abstract meaning mathematical zero.


What's wrong with one of those two choices?

Cat :)
Apart from linguistic, mathematical, computer science 'nothing' meanings and disambiguation.
For cosmic meanings I found only:
'all-or-nothing-control', 'bubble of nothing'.
 
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Its really hard to me to even try to define nothing. Its like if someone walked into an empty room and said nothing is there but in reality there is space there which is something. So my question is what would true nothing be like? a place without space or matter?
First of all, you must go outside our atmosphere because we have 10 to the 19th particles of the air density on the Earth which is exactly why you say there is space in the room. That space is full of particles filling the volume. Imagine being in the intergalactic space where density is 1 particle per 1 cubic meter. Of course, there is dark matter and dark energy. I must make small remark here. How is it possible that almost empty space, with just 1 particle per 1 cubic meter, has significant energy levels (dark energy?) and that interstellar space, with density of 1 particle per 1 cubic centimeter, has gravity effect (dark matter)? There must be some form of the energy and matter that we can not see. Scientist call it dark energy and dark matter. It could be observable in the dark waves spectre not electromagnetic. It has certain properties that make it transparent but is it really open and crossable? Maybe more developed specie uses some sort of camouflage. Their matter appears as clear and through to cover their planets and structures. Anyway, intergalactic vacuum is closest thing to the nothing. There we have just 1 particle in the 1 cubic meter. Rest is crystal clear and unobstructed with quantum fluctuations and certain energy level.ž which is obviously still not nothing but we are closer to the idea. Now all you have to do is cool down that 1 cubic meter, using modified wavelenght lasers, to the near absolute zero, slowing the subatomic particles and emerging quantum pairs and practically decreasing the total energy to the nihil (0). Then you would have 1 static particle, dosen of frozen quantum pairs and no energy as long as precisely tuned lasers are cooling down our cubic meter. This is theoretically closest to the nothing.

Philosophic and linguistic nothing, as indeed found in the "ex nihilo" theology and different creation theories is not logically necessary, because if Time as a dimension was created with the Big Bang then anything existing prior is actually eternal and indestructible. Hence, any force or manifestation without time factor becomes immortal and needs no source cause. It just is. Quantum fluctuations just are. They happen and cancel each other without energy preservation violation. Total energy is always 0. Since, +1 and -1 equals zero (0) then zero (0) equals +1 and -1 in the same but reverse manner. It is the basic truth! Nothing is conditional! It has zero (0) total energy, due to the particle and antiparticle mutual cancellation, but still it is briefly manifested. People have wrong premises. They think of nothing exactly like nothing yet they can not see it anywhere only assume its emptiness. There is no nothing except as a human concept! There is only conditional nothing, with potential to express itself dually producing quantum fluctuations all over but always obeying the law of energy preservation which is zero (0) at all times!

Anti-matter exists in the anti-Verse or it is modified during the early Universe creation period to appear as a dark matter. Just think. Matter and anti-matter cancel each other. Why? Because they have the opposite charge. Proton has positive charge and anti-proton has negative charge. Like an electron. And anti-electron has positive charge. Like proton. But we reverse the structure of the elementary particles into its counterparts, that is into the opposite dimensions, beyond the mirror so to speak, hence the dark matter can not be physically touched nor seen with known electromagnetic spectre but it still is and has gravity effect due to its mass. Also more dimensions bring us closer to the string theory, or even further in the theoretical physics department, and can explain certain "phenomenons" I have encountered during my scientific work. Yes, I have seen things indeed that I wouldn`t discuss unless payed honestly, at least a million $. Not to spread a general panic among uneducated folks. Not to disturb traditional scientific circles. Not to reveal the truth just to see it negated by governments and mainstream (regime) media. I need more evidence. I need full spectrography of my discoveries and deeper scientific approach using expensive laboratories, experts and equipment. Oh my God! I already said enough. I stop here. :)
 

Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
First of all, you must go outside our atmosphere because we have 10 to the 19th particles of the air density on the Earth which is exactly why you say there is space in the room. That space is full of particles filling the volume. Imagine being in the intergalactic space where density is 1 particle per 1 cubic meter. Of course, there is dark matter and dark energy. I must make small remark here. How is it possible that almost empty space, with just 1 particle per 1 cubic meter, has significant energy levels (dark energy?) and that interstellar space, with density of 1 particle per 1 cubic centimeter, has gravity effect (dark matter)? There must be some form of the energy and matter that we can not see. Scientist call it dark energy and dark matter. It could be observable in the dark waves spectre not electromagnetic. It has certain properties that make it transparent but is it really open and crossable? Maybe more developed specie uses some sort of camouflage. Their matter appears as clear and through to cover their planets and structures. Anyway, intergalactic vacuum is closest thing to the nothing. There we have just 1 particle in the 1 cubic meter. Rest is crystal clear and unobstructed with quantum fluctuations and certain energy level.ž which is obviously still not nothing but we are closer to the idea. Now all you have to do is cool down that 1 cubic meter, using modified wavelenght lasers, to the near absolute zero, slowing the subatomic particles and emerging quantum pairs and practically decreasing the total energy to the nihil (0). Then you would have 1 static particle, dosen of frozen quantum pairs and no energy as long as precisely tuned lasers are cooling down our cubic meter. This is theoretically closest to the nothing.

Philosophic and linguistic nothing, as indeed found in the "ex nihilo" theology and different creation theories is not logically necessary, because if Time as a dimension was created with the Big Bang then anything existing prior is actually eternal and indestructible. Hence, any force or manifestation without time factor becomes immortal and needs no source cause. It just is. Quantum fluctuations just are. They happen and cancel each other without energy preservation violation. Total energy is always 0. Since, +1 and -1 equals zero (0) then zero (0) equals +1 and -1 in the same but reverse manner. It is the basic truth! Nothing is conditional! It has zero (0) total energy, due to the particle and antiparticle mutual cancellation, but still it is briefly manifested. People have wrong premises. They think of nothing exactly like nothing yet they can not see it anywhere only assume its emptiness. There is no nothing except as a human concept! There is only conditional nothing, with potential to express itself dually producing quantum fluctuations all over but always obeying the law of energy preservation which is zero (0) at all times!

Anti-matter exists in the anti-Verse or it is modified during the early Universe creation period to appear as a dark matter. Just think. Matter and anti-matter cancel each other. Why? Because they have the opposite charge. Proton has positive charge and anti-proton has negative charge. Like an electron. And anti-electron has positive charge. Like proton. But we reverse the structure of the elementary particles into its counterparts, that is into the opposite dimensions, beyond the mirror so to speak, hence the dark matter can not be physically touched nor seen with known electromagnetic spectre but it still is and has gravity effect due to its mass. Also more dimensions bring us closer to the string theory, or even further in the theoretical physics department, and can explain certain "phenomenons" I have encountered during my scientific work. Yes, I have seen things indeed that I wouldn`t discuss unless payed honestly, at least a million $. Not to spread a general panic among uneducated folks. Not to disturb traditional scientific circles. Not to reveal the truth just to see it negated by governments and mainstream (regime) media. I need more evidence. I need full spectrography of my discoveries and deeper scientific approach using expensive laboratories, experts and equipment. Oh my God! I already said enough. I stop here. :)
"Oh my God! I already said enough. I stop here. :) "

Thanks a million, but, sorry, I find my post #131 to be definitive.

Cat :)
 
First of all, you must go outside our atmosphere because we have 10 to the 19th particles of the air density on the Earth which is exactly why you say there is space in the room. That space is full of particles filling the volume. Imagine being in the intergalactic space where density is 1 particle per 1 cubic meter. Of course, there is dark matter and dark energy. I must make small remark here. How is it possible that almost empty space, with just 1 particle per 1 cubic meter, has significant energy levels (dark energy?) and that interstellar space, with density of 1 particle per 1 cubic centimeter, has gravity effect (dark matter)? There must be some form of the energy and matter that we can not see. Scientist call it dark energy and dark matter. It could be observable in the dark waves spectre not electromagnetic. It has certain properties that make it transparent but is it really open and crossable? Maybe more developed specie uses some sort of camouflage. Their matter appears as clear and through to cover their planets and structures. Anyway, intergalactic vacuum is closest thing to the nothing. There we have just 1 particle in the 1 cubic meter. Rest is crystal clear and unobstructed with quantum fluctuations and certain energy level.ž which is obviously still not nothing but we are closer to the idea. Now all you have to do is cool down that 1 cubic meter, using modified wavelenght lasers, to the near absolute zero, slowing the subatomic particles and emerging quantum pairs and practically decreasing the total energy to the nihil (0). Then you would have 1 static particle, dosen of frozen quantum pairs and no energy as long as precisely tuned lasers are cooling down our cubic meter. This is theoretically closest to the nothing.

Philosophic and linguistic nothing, as indeed found in the "ex nihilo" theology and different creation theories is not logically necessary, because if Time as a dimension was created with the Big Bang then anything existing prior is actually eternal and indestructible. Hence, any force or manifestation without time factor becomes immortal and needs no source cause. It just is. Quantum fluctuations just are. They happen and cancel each other without energy preservation violation. Total energy is always 0. Since, +1 and -1 equals zero (0) then zero (0) equals +1 and -1 in the same but reverse manner. It is the basic truth! Nothing is conditional! It has zero (0) total energy, due to the particle and antiparticle mutual cancellation, but still it is briefly manifested. People have wrong premises. They think of nothing exactly like nothing yet they can not see it anywhere only assume its emptiness. There is no nothing except as a human concept! There is only conditional nothing, with potential to express itself dually producing quantum fluctuations all over but always obeying the law of energy preservation which is zero (0) at all times!

Anti-matter exists in the anti-Verse or it is modified during the early Universe creation period to appear as a dark matter. Just think. Matter and anti-matter cancel each other. Why? Because they have the opposite charge. Proton has positive charge and anti-proton has negative charge. Like an electron. And anti-electron has positive charge. Like proton. But we reverse the structure of the elementary particles into its counterparts, that is into the opposite dimensions, beyond the mirror so to speak, hence the dark matter can not be physically touched nor seen with known electromagnetic spectre but it still is and has gravity effect due to its mass. Also more dimensions bring us closer to the string theory, or even further in the theoretical physics department, and can explain certain "phenomenons" I have encountered during my scientific work. Yes, I have seen things indeed that I wouldn`t discuss unless payed honestly, at least a million $. Not to spread a general panic among uneducated folks. Not to disturb traditional scientific circles. Not to reveal the truth just to see it negated by governments and mainstream (regime) media. I need more evidence. I need full spectrography of my discoveries and deeper scientific approach using expensive laboratories, experts and equipment. Oh my God! I already said enough. I stop here. :)
I think the answer to nothing is the fact that a smallest thing can exist in the universe.
If nothing didn't exist then the universe would be one big block of goo.
Nothing for sure exists at some scale even if is simply the void space between the smallest things.

The next logical question is if nothing can exist could it be the reason for everything and a start point?

Have fun on that mind bending question :)

My take on it after 25 years is
In the beginning we had nothing.
Nothing either had a - potential energy or was unstable.
It spawned quantum fluctuation that had no split pairs and created sub atomic particle until conservation of energy was balanced.
Then fluctuation couldn't create or destroy only balance.
Collisions, Cannibalism, Merge until E is to high in a region and BB.
Since nothing was infinite so was this same process and laws across infinity with infinite regions of BB's, potential BB areas, areas with little energy, giant black hole areas waiting for more energy etc.

JMO
 
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Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
VPE, you are still ignoring (imho) the two possibilities.

One is a word in common usage, which has millions if different meanings.
Forget this word. It is just semantic.

The other is a meaningless mathematical concept. Something divided by infinity.
Leave that one to the mathematicians.

Forget 'nothing[. Say 'tiny', 'miniscule', 'smallest imaginable', [ anything you like - except 'nothing'.

The world will be a better place.

Cat :)
 
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Once more into the breach: "Nothingness" can be defined as "everythingness" (everything at once), just as the Big Crunch can be defined as also being the Big Void (the Big Hole); the timeless primordial binary naked singularity of 1 and/or 0. Does "everythingness" ('1') (the Big Crunch) have a time? No. Does "nothingness" ('0') (the Big Void) have a time? No.

Does "time" exist as a single only, a nakedly singular arrow, a "naked singularity" (as defined by relativity)? No. Times, plural, exist. Times, rank and file, a naked plurality. Finite in each and every individual. Infinite (as in Big Crunch (Big Bang?)) and timeless (as in Big Void (Big Hole?)) totaled up.

There was and is nowhere and nothing for a Big Crunch (Big Bang) to go into but itself. Nowhere and nothing to contract and/or expand into but itself. So one (the Big Crunch) is always the other (the Big Bang): Other dimensionally, the Big Void (Big Hole, Big Vacuum, whatever). Not serial, not following, but timelessly one and the same multidimensionality.
 
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'As soon as you exclude the impossible, the remaining, no matter how incredible it may seem, becomes the truth.' - practical, but not scientific.
 

Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
What exactly is nothing?

"For there was never yet philosopher
That could endure the toothache patiently.
(Leonato, Act 5 Scene 1)

Much Ado about Nothing (William Shakespeare)

Cat :)
 

Wolfshadw

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And I think we're done here. Thanks to all who have participated.
Please keep your comments polite and professional.

Closing thread
Wolfshadw
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