What now for NASA??

[ldyaidan]

I agree with a lot of what you have to say. The status quo is NOT ok in America. Our space program could be a resolution to many of the problems we are currently facing, from morale to employement. I think that our system needs to undergo some drastic changes. <br /><br />In order for the space program to be effective, I have several suggestions. <br /><br />1) NASA becomes a partner in the program, not the whole program. There is a lot of expertise, experience, hardware, and facilities already in place with NASA. However, the other arm of the space program needs to be civilian, with people like Rutan, Scaled Composites, Bigelow, T-space and so on. They have the vision and the courage that NASA used to have. Include special interest groups like the Mars Society, NSS, Planetary Society and so on.. All of these groups have good, workable ideas to complete the mission and turn us into a space faring race. Take the best pieces of each of their plans, and make it into 1 cohesive, mission plan, and make it happen. Everyone reaches their goal, by working together in a logical, reasonable manner.<br /><br />How to fund it? Tax each working American $1/mo. $1 per person, per month. Something we won't even notice as being gone, but it adds up to millions of dollars every month, which will easily pay for the program, and support the program until such time as the colonies are profitable and self sustaining. <br /><br />Get American buy-in -- Advertise! We should have posters up in every school, on the street corners, radio spots, bumper stickers, whatever we can come up with. People should not be able to go a block without seeing support for the project. Once it's a "daily household topic" then we're on our way.<br /><br />I know I've over simplified things, but things have drug out for decades with little or no results. I love NASA. We need heroes, and the space program can provide those. People are desperate for something to believe in, some hope for a better

 

[john_316]

As mentioned in previous post on this issue of Now what... <br /><br />We can always sell our share of the ISS to international concerns or better yet time share the ISS for a profit for us.<br /><br />But I think we need to complete ISS as planned and move on with the moon and Mars...<br /><br />Get the Delta 4 and Atlas 5 certified for construction flights to ISS and limit shuttle flights if at all possible to completing ISS and maybe a hubble service mission.<br /><br />Now we do need CEV access to space and we will also have a heavy lifter that can be worked with later on so that a even larger CEV can be launched later.<br /><br />Who knows maybe by 2025 we will have NASP or something along those lines in scramjet technology. But thats all LEO operations for crew and cargo.<br /><br />But the breath of mission work is BEYOND LEO and we need to direct all our heads towards it. LEO is going to be passe in 5 years so we better get used to it...<br /><br />LOL <br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br />

 

[frodo1008]

Overall, a most excellent post! And I <b>am</b> glad that you have decided to join the discussion, let us just pledge to each other that we won't get into some kind of a back and forth battle! You do have a great deal to contribute!<br /><br />Now:<br /><br /> <font color="yellow">A great deal will depend on the next flight of the shuttle: when it goes up; how successful it is; and whether there is another grounding/delay imposed after it. </font><br /><br />While all of your post was good I thought that this last sentence summed up NASA's currently greatest challenge and problem especially well!<br /><br />Indeed if NASA can't get over its shyness in this area, then what I proposed, and what you said would have been politically <b>difficult</b> (thanks, I find that I like using this bold tag for emphasis better as all caps can be internet interpreted as shouting. I just don't understand the lack of a spell checker?) will instead quite possibly become a political reality!<br /><br />NASA seems to want to eliminate risk to a level that is just impossible! The shuttle is going to go to the relative safe harbor of the ISS, so why not just go. <b>If</b> NASA is going to either fly the shuttle less than three times per year (starting next March), or even worse, not fly at all than indeed the STS program should be haulted! <br /><br />Of course, this would mean that we would not be finishing the ISS to the level that we originally promised ourselves. This was the thrust of most of my lead in post to this thread. It dosen't mean that the ISS can't be finished at all, it just means that we would have to turn the job over to the other partners. Even if this would mean <b>giving</b> them all the work that we have already done! To me this would also mean providing the same amount of continued funding for the ISS that we would have done (minus, of course, the funding for the STS flights to the ISS). From what I have seen this amounts to less than 10% of NASA's budget.

 

[halman]

AlonzoFyfe,<br /><br />You say that letters to congressmen do little good. Perhaps not when they are not accompanied by thousands of other letters saying the same thing, but the staffers DO keep count. The conservative right wing of this country has managed to influence the direction the country is traveling in, partly by mobilizing the troops to write those letters. How else do we expect our representatives to know what we desire? The American Association of Retired Persons has had several very successful campaigns based entirely on letter writing.<br /><br />Public opinion is important to politicians, as was verified by the tremendous pressure the American public put on the government to get rid of all investments or ties with the South African government shortly before aparthied ended. Reagan was dead set against such action, but an overwhelming telephone and letter campaign, completely grass roots and unorganized, pushed him into approving what he did not want.<br /><br />We space enthusiasts seem to believe that either there is no point in making ourselves heard, or that improvements in the country's space policy will be automatic for some reason. Many politicians would probably love justification for raising NASA appropriation levels. But without positive input from the public, they are unlikely to so. There are too many very vocal groups demanding funding for their pet project.<br /><br />People are all revved up by SpaceShip One, and Virgin Galactic, pointing to them as evidence that the private sector is ready to step up to the plate of space travel. Certainly there has been a considerable increase in funding of private space flight. But enough to take over the development of Cheap Access To Space? I don't think so. Everything I know about spaceflight tells me that we have many billions of dollars to spend before CATS is a reality, and the risks will be substantial that any given investment will not be successful. That is why we are going to have to de <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[alonzofyfe]

Halman:<br /><br />Politicians do not use letters to determine the sentiments of their constituents -- at least, the smart ones do not. Statisticians will tell you that this type of survey would have very low external validity. A politician who does this risks making very serious miscalculations about what will get him re-elected.<br /><br />Genuine scientific polls are the only data a sensible politician will pay attention to.<br /><br />Both major parties have a full-time staff of pollsters. They share their results with senate, representative, and even local state candidates (unless that candidate displeases the party leadership, then his access to information is cut off as punishment).<br /><br />In order to have an effect on politicians, you have to do something that ends up showing up in those polls. In other words, do not send the letters to your representative or senator. Send the letters to your friends, families, and neighbors.<br /><br />Note: Elsewhere in this forum I posted an article that I wrote on the moral justification for colonizing space. After I wrote it, I emailed copies to my friends, co-workers, and family. I posted a reference to it on this bulletin board and others. I hope that a few of them saw something of merit in what I wrote, and sent copies (or links) to their friends, families, and co-workers.<br /><br />Now, massive letter campaigns do have one effect -- which is why large political organizations use them. If an organization can muster a huge stack of letters to a representative, this tells the representative that the head of that organization has pull with the voters. The head of the organization gains political muscle from a letter-writing campaign because it is assumed that whoever can deliver letters can also deliver votes. If your letters are not propping up an opinion leader, then they are not likely to be doing much good. If the Planetary Society, on the other hand, wants you to send a letter to your representative, you may want to do so

 

[halman]

AlonzoFyfe,<br /><br />Unfortunately, (for me, anyway,) everything that you say is true. Space is so far down in the conciousness of the average American that polls consistantly ignore it. American politics has become so focused on winning elections that issues of substance are ignored whenever possible, so space is getting ignored for the most part.<br /><br />And you are right on in pointing out that the space community is seriously fractured over what should be the priority. If things continue the way that they are, the priority is going to be maintaining some kind of space program. If I were a politician, I certainly wouldn't know what to make of the rabid exchanges between Zurbin's followers and almost everybody else. It almost seems like there are two entirely different camps of space advocates, who will sacrifice the entire program to get their way.<br /><br />I don't know why this issue is still important to me, as there is no chance that I will ever walk on another planet or moon. I don't have any kids, so the prosterity of the future concerns me not. I guess I just am obsessed with trying to keep this country from disintegrating. How stupid of me. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[alonzofyfe]

halman<br /><br />I did not mean to depress you. I also have come to grips with the fact that I will never leave this planet. Also, I have no kids, so I can't be doing anything for their sake either.<br /><br />But, there is the human race to consider.<br /><br />I'm not too keenly interested in the welfare of any given country. I tend to have a more global world view.<br /><br />Anyway . . . I think that there are things that can and should be done. I just think that working effecitively means looking at the real world and seeing what we actually have the power to change.<br /><br />There are certain political facts that will not change. Such as . . . different space organizations have different dreams, that NASA will continue to exist much as it has in the past, that politicians do not care about things that do not actually translate into votes, and that the country will never again experience the unity for a space project that they felt in the 1960s unless faced with an external threat that can best be answered through space development.<br /><br />(Find a huge asteroid or comet that will collide with Earth in 30 years or so . . . that will get them motivated.)<br /><br />Let's not waste energy on things that cannot be changed, but focus on that which is within our grasp.<br /><br />Facing this reality, what can be done?<br /><br />Well, about the fractured space advocates, the thing to do here is to find something that all of them could use, and make that your project. As I see it, they could almost all use the cheapest access to low earth orbit possible. This would appear to be a space station on an equatorial orbit. Lunar colonies, Mars colonies, Asteroid mining, solar power satellites, space tourism, O'Neill style open space stations, all of them could make use of a trading post on the doorway to space.<br /><br />About space being a low priority on peoples' agenda -- rather than trying to change their agenda, find something that space has to offer that fits the agenda they alre

 

[halman]

AlonzoFyfe,<br /><br />Thank you for your detailed response! Don't worry, you are not depressing me. The United States Congress is depressing me, by ignoring the strengths of the American industrial sector, the research sector, and the American youth. Consistantly, Congress has given lip service to space exploration, because it is viewed as 'scientific research', not 'industrial development'. Congress does not view space as a frontier that is ripe for investment, they think of it as a vast unknown, where we send expensive equipment to take pretty pictures that impress the rest of the world.<br /><br />Alas, it has always been like this. The Louisana Purchase was derided as a total waste of money, which would not be fully utilized until at least 2600 A.D. Alaska was called 'Seward's Folly', after the secretary of state who arranged the purchase from the Russians. Congress did not consider rocketry to be important, until a satellite which went 'beep, beep' suddenly appeared in the sky. The implications of that development, and the following launches of a dog, and then a man, forced Congress to study up on delivery systems for thermonuclear weapons, and what they learned scared the pants off of them.<br /><br />Today, we face a sense of complacency in spite of overwhelming evidence that the world is changing, whether we like or not. American schools are becoming worthless, American industries are shutting down, and the American economy is being propped up by investment from foreign banks anxious to avoid a global currancy meltdown. The skills and resources which put Americans on the Moon are being allowed to whither away, when they could be at the forefront of a new effort to remake our culture, our economy, and our industrial base. Other countries have been looking to the United States for leadership in space exploration, because of the success that we enjoyed with the Apollo program, but they are discovering that Americans on the whole lack vision, are poorly ed <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[spacester]

Those are some very nicely written posts, covering familiar ground but with a nice fresh treatment. <br /><br />Please allow me to offer a solution to this quandary. We can deal with the inertia of ignorance. I've conducted a logical investigation into the dilemma of slow space development, and through some collaboration on the internet, am refining an approach that will work if given a chance by the people that matter. Writers such as yourselves can make a difference; I appeal to your open-mindedness to give this approach a fair hearing.<br /><br />It is not super-simple, this solution. It is presented in detail at ACCESS Space Foundation, where this discussion, along with a long rambling sales pitch address some of the issues here.<br /><br />The criticism of Congress is on target of course, but to what end? How does it help to blame Congress? It is what it is, it's not gonna change, let's just bypass capitol hill and get on with it. What if, instead of fragmented demands, Congress hears a call for a broad based, coordinated push into space by a combination of NASA, Private Enterprise and Space Advocates? What if Congress hears that we will take what we get for the NASA budget and make it work and quit our whining?<br /><br />Here's the crux of the solution: Bypass Congress and collect $Billions$ directly from millions of Americans as subscriptions to a space program that has something for everyone. They pay their annual subscription, the money goes into a trust account to be disbursed for missions that are built and flown according to a program that has something for everybody. Fly a lot of missions to get the flight rate up and make the rocket business healthy again. Inspire and involve Americans and the rest of the world in a space program for the common man.<br /><b></b> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[alonzofyfe]

Spacester:<br /><br />If you have not seen it yet, consider going to the topic SPACE BUSINESS AND TECHNOLOGY and visiting the thread SPACE PRIZES, INC..<br /><br />You may find it useful.<br /><br />http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=320992&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

 

[spacester]

Hi Alonzo<br /><br />Yes I saw that proposal and I liked it a lot. Isn't it disappointing when you work hard on something and get no reaction? All I'll say about that lack of response is "Welcome to sdc" and take heart. If a proposal is not shot down in flames, then the brain trust here either thinks you are a crazy person or they cannot find a fundamental flaw, or they simply cannot be bothered to help make a good proposal better.<br /><br />For my part, to me it is an excellent proposal and if you are interested in moving forward on it, you would get the support of myself and ACCESS. If I had the time these days, I would have already commented on it. In fact IIRC I started a reply but didn't get it finished.<br /><br />Please just remember that proposals such as yours are not mutually exclusive with other proposals. One of the primary fallacies of space advocates is that of the false choice.<br /><br />We need not choose between Moon and Mars and we need not choose between Space Prizes and a Private Space Program. In each case we can do both.<br /><br />That being said, there are some legal aspects of the Space Prize Inc approach that appear to be in conflict with the Non-Profit Space Foundation approach ACCESS is pursuing. So ACCESS can endorse such a proposal but cannot administer it. That's my current understanding anyway. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[ldyaidan]

I agree, some awesome posts here. Many of my own concerns and frustrations have been given very well.<br /><br />What would it take to get a big letter writing campaign going, or even petitions that we can send in? This may be a great way to start getting people working together, and begin a united push for space. We could even have pre-printed letters, to have people sign, and send them in all at once, and distribute copies to the various space advocacy groups, private enterprizes and so on, as well as make it available for download.<br /><br />Rae

 

[spacester]

Rae, I expect that ACCESS will do a massive letter writing campaign when the time is right. In my judgement, that time is a ways off yet.<br /><br />Of course, that doesn't mean a letter-writing campaign has to wait for ACCESS to be ready, lol. But quite frankly, I gave up on Congress quite a while back and so I don't have any idea how or when a non-ACCESS campaign would work.<br /><br />BTW, just because the ACCESS strategy starts off by bypassing Congress doesn't mean we're not going to be asking them for stuff a little later.<br /><br />There are some excellent guidelines here about how to be effective with Congress, I hope somebody utilizes that advice and takes action. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>