What's with HAARP,its all bad news? Have your say

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earth_bound_misfit

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Ok. I made mention of this technology over on another thread, but nobody seemed interested or had any further input.<br /><br />HAARP is an Acronym for "High-Frequency Active Auroral Research Program".<br />Please google for extended info, further than what I will add here.<br /><br />Some info from http://www.haarp.alaska.edu/haarp/gen.html<br /><br />HAARP is a scientific endeavour aimed at studying the properties and behaviour of the ionosphere, with particular emphasis on being able to understand and use it to enhance communications and surveillance systems for both civilian and defence purposes. <br /><br />The HAARP program is committed to developing a world class ionospheric research facility consisting of: <br /><br />The ionospheric research instrument (IRI), a high power transmitter facility operating in the HF frequency range. The IRI will be used to temporarily excite a limited area of the ionosphere for scientific study. <br />A sophisticated suite of Scientific (or "diagnostic") instruments that will be used to observe the physical processes that occur in the excited region. <br />Observation of the processes resulting from the use of the IRI in a controlled manner will allow scientists to better understand processes that occur continuously under the natural stimulation of the sun. <br />Scientific instruments installed at the HAARP Observatory will be useful for a variety of continuing research efforts which do not involve the use of the IRI but are strictly passive. Among these studies include ionospheric characterization using satellite beacons, telescopic observation of the fine structure in the aurora, and documentation of long-term variations in the ozone layer. <br /><br />Sounds pretty harmless eh? Well it could be. If you google further, your ideas might change. If you’re a "HAM" then things might be great (I’m a HF user, not strictly a ham).<br /><br />I'm really not sure of the out come of <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>
 
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pizzaguy

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<font color="yellow"><br />I'm really not sure of the out come of these experiments, though the reading I have done on the subject makes its look as something we should not treat lightly, as I quite like our atmosphere the way it is</font><br /><br />Anything they do can't have an effect lasting very long at all. So I'm not worried. Anyway, I don't see the point of any further experiments - the use of the HF spectrum is nearing it's end: all new communications systems involved satellite relays and terrestrial relays.<br /><br />HF radio is being left behind.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1"><em>Note to Dr. Henry:  The testosterone shots are working!</em></font> </div>
 
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meteo

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I'm familiar with a couple of the HAARP conpiracies. <br /><br /># HAARP is a giant death ray, based on a design contained in the notes of inventor Nikola Tesla, seized by the FBI after his death. This is a very popular theory, probably because so much of it is actually true. Tesla claimed to have developed a death ray with a very similar configuration to HAARP's actual configuration, and the seizure of his scientific papers is a matter of public record.<br /># HAARP is a weather-control machine. There's a certain logic to this one as well. If a butterfly's wings beating in Tibet can cause el Nino, then a gigawatt of electromagnetic radiation (which it isn't but they claim it is) ought to be good for something.<br /># HAARP is an earthquake machine. Also based on a bunch of weird stuff Tesla discovered. Somewhat offset by the fact the HAARP array is clearly pointed at the sky.<br /># HAARP is a doomsday machine ripping a hole in the earth's atmosphere. Colorful, but scienfitically questionable. How do you rip a hole in air?<br /># HAARP has something to do with UFOs. Either signalling them, blasting them from the skies, or feeding babies to them.<br /># HAARP is a giant Mind Control broadcasting machine. Appealing, but if it works, why are people still such a-holes?<br /><br />Good for nothing more than a laugh really <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />
 
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pizzaguy

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Ooooooooooooooooo, I LOVE this kind of crap....<br /><br /><font color="yellow"><br /># HAARP is a giant death ray, based on a design contained in the notes of inventor Nikola Tesla, seized by the FBI after his death. This is a very popular theory, probably because so much of it is actually true. Tesla claimed to have developed a death ray with a very similar configuration to HAARP's actual configuration, and the seizure of his scientific papers is a matter of public record.</font><br />Yea, but Tesla claimed a lot of stuff that didn't add up. He was a bright guy, but so was the Unibomber.<br /><font color="yellow"><br /># HAARP is a weather-control machine. There's a certain logic to this one as well. If a butterfly's wings beating in Tibet can cause el Nino, then a gigawatt of electromagnetic radiation (which it isn't but they claim it is) ought to be good for something.</font><br />Only problem is... a butterfly cannot cause or effect el nino, and, as you said, HAARP's output isnt' that great.<br /><br /><font color="yellow"><br /># HAARP is an earthquake machine. Also based on a bunch of weird stuff Tesla discovered. Somewhat offset by the fact the HAARP array is clearly pointed at the sky.</font><br />I know jim/jonglenn hates it - but Tesla got a lot of stuff wrong. (Still, he got more right than most - I'm not bashing him.)<br /><font color="yellow"><br /># HAARP is a doomsday machine ripping a hole in the earth's atmosphere. Colorful, but scienfitically questionable. How do you rip a hole in air?</font><br />Exactly.<br /><br /><font color="yellow"><br /># HAARP has something to do with UFOs. Either signalling them, blasting them from the skies, or feeding babies to them.</font><br />Well, doesn't EVERYTHING that someone doesn't understand <i>that is connected to the sky in ANY way</i>, have to do with UFOs? <img src="/images/icons/crazy.gif" /><br /><br /><font color="yellow"><br /># HAARP is a giant Mind Control broadcast</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1"><em>Note to Dr. Henry:  The testosterone shots are working!</em></font> </div>
 
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CalliArcale

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What I don't understand is why the conspiracy theorists fixate on HAARP when there's a perfectly good (and probably genuine) conspiracy about the similarily-named HARP (the Canadian gun-launched rocket program). I suppose it's because they don't see why anyone would seriously want to better understand the ionosphere, so they assume there must be an ulterior motive. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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pizzaguy

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<font color="yellow">I suppose it's because they don't see why anyone would seriously want to better understand the ionosphere, so they assume there must be an ulterior motive.</font><br /><br />I think you "hit the nail on the head". <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1"><em>Note to Dr. Henry:  The testosterone shots are working!</em></font> </div>
 
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nexium

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My guess is the arithmetic for the worst outcomes is faulty. If they are transmitting pulses, my guess is ionization is ten times greater than the average power even if the duty cycle is 0.0001. If average is ten million watts ionizing is equivent to 100 million watts, or less. One cubic kilometer has 1000 million cubic meters. 1/10 watt per cubic meter = 100 nanowatt per cubic centimeter is not gong to ionize much. At HF frequencies, antenna gain is not practical to deliver 1/10 of the energy to one cubic kilometer of rarefied air at a range of 100 kilometers. My guess is they are collecting grant money, but will produce non-spectacular results. Neil
 
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nexium

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In time of disaster it is good to have back up for the back up communications. HAARP is partly an effort to make medium and short waves = HF more useful over distances of thousands of miles.<br />Satelites and fiber optics are better except they are valnerable to attack and other disaster. Neil
 
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mlorrey

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this is an inappropriate thread for the business area.
 
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tomnackid

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Not really. The only money making use of space far has been in the realm of communications. If HAARP turns out to make some interesting discoveries in the area of long distance communications WITHOUT the use of satellites it could have a profound effect on the economics of space flight. Arthur Clark ("inventor" of the communications satellite) has said that he already sees the end of the era of communications satellites on the horizon in favor of technologies like fiber optics.
 
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mlorrey

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Not true, earth observation sats make money, space burial makes money, and SpaceDev earns a profit too.<br /><br />Any communications advances of HAARP will be restricted to military use. Given the horrendous noise to signal ratio on this forum, you are inviting the aluminum hat wearing nutjobs into the business forum. Just go and make the whole forum a freakshow.
 
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nexium

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When and if we build huge solar power satelites, the small communications satelites will loose some business as the the gigawatt beam can carry wide band data and scatters enough energy to be received with a modest antenna over half the Earth and half of the Solar System.<br />Unless HAARP moves from megahertz to gigahertz it can only carry narrow band communications, so the impact on communications satelites will be tiny. Neil
 
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nexium

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Hi mlorrey: I share your pain. Only about 1% of the sentences typed on www.space.com are of interst to me. Others, however, find a different 1% interesting. When we overlap both gain. If we start restricting seriously, the number of posts (and diversity) will fall making overlap very rare.<br />Much of space bussiness is funded by DOD = Department of Defence and HAAPP has some dollars to spend. In my opinion our best bet is to try to educate the nutjobs. I've often been surprised how much I learned trying to explain something to another person. It happens because we combine bits of knowledge in ways we had not done before.<br />Aluminum foil hats are useful to reduce energy absorbed by the brain from strong electromagnetic fields, So aluminum foil hats can reduce brain damage.<br />I appreciate the many helpful comments you have made on numerious threads. Neil
 
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