Question When we look back in time using Hubble or JWST?

J@i

Jul 13, 2022
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When we look back in time using Hubble or JWST? Is it possible that we are seeing the same current galaxies in making including our galaxy Milkyway?

Is it possible that many galaxies that we see far away in time are nothing but random images of current galaxies at different stages of its birth and at points in space due to expansion.

Are we by any chance recounting the same galaxies (a same entity but different poses in its lifecycle) when we try to measure the visible mass of the Universe?
 
Jul 13, 2022
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No, those are real galaxies whose existence is questionable but the light very much tells us that they did exist.

Our own galaxy is right here, it can't leave a hologram of itself for 4+ billion logjt years.

There's no chance that we're recounting or counting our own galaxy, that which is right here.

All those galaxies captured by Hubble amd Webb are but holograms of those galaxies, the way they once used to be.

Birth of those galaxies was way back than when it developed into a full galaxy, we've already missed their birth time the light of those times has crossed us long ago, only civilizations way more distant than 4+ billion ly, in a specific direction could witness their birth, if at all.

Light of their birth times has surpassed us, and any other civilization, and galaxies currently being formed elsewhere may one day be captured by our future generations.
 
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J@i

Jul 13, 2022
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When we look back in time using Hubble or JWST?

Does anyone understand the question (post #1)?
If so, please explain it to me.

Cat :)
My post#1 question is:- All those ancient galaxies that we see today when we look back into time, is it possible that we are seeing the early holograms at different stages of birth of present day galaxies?
 
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Catastrophe

"There never was a good war, or a bad peace."
I understand that better. Thanks :)

is it possible that we are seeing the early holograms at different stages of birth of present day galaxies?
No. I would say definitely not. To see yourself, you need some kind of mirror.
I just think the observable universe is limited only by our powers to observe. It has already been stretched enormously from naked eye to JWST.

Cat :)
 
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Jul 26, 2022
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When we look back in time, we can see some of the most distant and oldest galaxies that have ever been observed. These galaxies are so far away that their light has taken billions of years to reach us. By looking at these galaxies, we can learn about the early Universe and how it has evolved over time.

The Hubble Space Telescope and the James Webb Space Telescope are two of the most powerful telescopes that have ever been built. These telescopes can see further into the Universe than any other telescope, and they have been used to discover some of the most distant and oldest galaxies.

The Hubble Space Telescope was launched in 1990 and it has been used to observe the Universe for over 25 years. The James Webb Space Telescope is scheduled to launch in 2021 and it will be even more powerful than Hubble.

These two telescopes have been used to study the most distant galaxies in the Universe. In 2016, astronomers used Hubble to study a galaxy that is 13.4 billion lightyears away from Earth. This galaxy is so far away that its light has taken over 13 billion years to reach us. This means that we are seeing this galaxy as it was over 13 billion years ago.

In 2018, astronomers used the James Webb Space Telescope to study a galaxy that is even more distant than the one observed by Hubble. This galaxy is so far away that its light has taken over 13.5 billion years to reach us.

This means that we are seeing this galaxy as it was over 13.5 billion years ago. These observations are important because they allow us to study the early Universe. By looking at these distant galaxies, we can learn about how the Universe has evolved over time.
 
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Aug 11, 2022
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Hi all! I joined and would like to follow this thread with a Q that has been with me since I heard we can look back towards the time of the Big Bang (one theory of the birth of everything as we know it).
Question: How can we see the early birth of the Universe that occurred 13.5+ Billion years ago IF we are that far away when observing? Did Earth, our solar system, our galaxy all originate from the Big Bang so long ago? Are we not observing the remnants of the Big Bang 13.5 Billion years later?
 

Catastrophe

"There never was a good war, or a bad peace."
Hi JBUMA,Welcome to the forum. Just forget about the BB for a moment.

We see by light. No problem for us during the daytime, as there is plenty of light. At night, away from city lights, we can see the stars. Forget the Moon also, for a moment. We do not get much light from the stars, because they are far away. So, to see them better, we use telescopes. The important thing about a telescope, is the diameter of the front lens, or rather, its area. The bigger this area, the more light it collects compared to our eyes. The more light, the better we see, and the more detail we see. Just think of looking through a telescope or binocular during the days.

Now back to the stars, or, rather, the nearest star, the Sun. We can measure its distance away using familiar units, like miles - 92.96 million. Just as a matter of interest, it takes light (at 186,000 miles per second) 8.317 minutes to reach us. Instead of saying that the Sun is 92,960,000 miles away, we can say that it is 8.317 light minutes away. A light minute is the distance travelled by light in one minute. A light minute is a distance, not a time.

By saying that it takes 8.317 minutes for the light to travel from the Sun, it means that we are seeing what happened on the Sun, maybe a flare, about minutes ago. We cannot magic ourselves to the Sun and change anything. The light left the Sun about 8.3 minutes ago, and we see the Sun as it was then - in the past. Or, rather, in the Sun's past. We see the Sun's past, in our present.

Now, come back to the stars. The nearest stars are about 23,500,000.000.000 miles but, instead of using these and much larger numbers, we find it convenient to measure these distances in light years (the distance light travels in a year). 4 is an easier number to handle than 2.351 x 10^13 or 2.351 x 10,000,000,000,000.

But there is another consequence of using light years as a measurement of distance. In one sense, we are looking into the past - the star's past as seen in our time. If an alien flashed a very bright light at us from 4 light years away, we would see his 4 year old signal arriving in our "now". We cannot, in any way, stop the alien flashing the light. That happened 4 years ago, but we only see it now, because it took light that long to travel.

I will come back on the BB shortly.

Cat :)
 
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Catastrophe

"There never was a good war, or a bad peace."
Now let's get to the BB. The big bang (or BB) is a difficult term to understand, because the nearer we get to this big start (call it t = 0, or the beginning of it all) the less able is science to see what is going on. But keeping things simple (but not exactly as they were) we will just call the BB the time when things got going.

Your question is
Question: How can we see the early birth of the Universe that occurred 13.5+ Billion years ago IF we are that far away when observing? Did Earth, our solar system, our galaxy all originate from the Big Bang so long ago? Are we not observing the remnants of the Big Bang 13.5 Billion years later?
1. How can we see the early birth of the Universe that occurred 13.5+ Billion years ago IF we are that far away when observing?

There are things that stop us seeing right back to t = 0, because the state of the universe very early on did not allow light to pass through it. But that is not really what you want to know, is it? If I can rephrase you question (may I please?):
How can we see back to earliest times IF we are that far away when observing?
If we have large enough telescopes, especially if we mount them in space, we can see dimmer and dimmer stars from further and further away. As we saw above, larger telescopes allow us to collect more light, so we can see dimmer stars. Of course, if there are brighter objects back there, we will see them sooner.

We are that far away when observing, and we can see way back, but only if we have the right equipment. Primitive man could only see so far back because, like us, he had small diameter eyes. Maybe he could have seen the Andromeda Galaxy at 2.537 million light years, but that is only a tiny start compared to 13.5+ billion light years.

Of course, we cannot interact with anything long ago. If we see an alien 1 light year away, about to fire a weapon at Earth, there is no way we could stop him. He will already have fired it a year ago.

2. Did Earth, our solar system, our galaxy all originate from the Big Bang so long ago?
No, our Solar System came along much later - 4.571 billion years ago. Of course, we cannot see that now. We are too close. Theoretical aliens, say, around 4.571 billion light years away, could be watching it "now" in our present time. They cannot interfere with it because, for us, it already happened long, long ago.

3. Are we not observing the remnants of the Big Bang 13.5 Billion years later? Yes and no. We now are getting telescopes which can enable us to see nearly that far back. So, yes, we can see the remnants in the Cosmic microwave background - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Cosmic_microwave_b...


In Big Bang cosmology the cosmic microwave background (CMB, CMBR) is electromagnetic radiation that is a remnant from an early stage of the universe, also known ...

I hope that has helped. If you have any questions, please ask away.

Cat :)
 
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Aug 11, 2022
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Thank you Cat for your cogent reply. Perhaps I did not state my conundrum clearly. I know that distance measured by the JWST and Hubble and any other telescope is based on the cosmological red shift meaning the further an image is in the infra-red part of the light spectrum the further away it is due to the expanding universe. To quote from the Hindu Newspaper (https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/how-james-webb-space-telescope-lets-us-see-the-first-galaxies-in-the-universe/article65653281.ece):
"Our galaxy, the Milky Way, spans 100,000+ light-years. And the beautiful newborn stars seen in JWST’s Carina Nebula image are 7,500 light-years away. In other words, this nebula as pictured is from a time roughly 2,000 years earlier than when the first ever writing is thought to have been invented in ancient Mesopotamia. So we will be able to see light from 13.7 billion years ago. What’s about to hurt your brain, however, is that those galaxies are not 13.7 billion light-years away. The actual distance to those galaxies today would be ~46 billion light-years."
So I posit that we are not looking at the state of the Universe as it existed 200 million years after the Big Bang but perhaps how it looked 32.5 Billion light years AFTER the Big Bang, assuming of course that we did originate from a BB.
 

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