Who really discovered that the Earth is round?

mental_avenger · Aug 17, 2005

I have said unto thee that I am the creator of the universe. Do ye yet not believe? Look around thee at the wonders I have made, the heavens above and the earth below, and all the plants and trees and grasses, and all the fishes in the sea and even all the kinds of animals that I have allowed to evolve over these many millions of years. Who else could have done these things? Have I not told thee it is I, the Big Cheese? Therefore, believe it is so, for I have told thee it is so. I have made the earth, and I have made it as flat as a pancake, yeah even as flat as a fine french crepe. But I have also made it round, so that there are no corners to hide in. Round and flat the earth I have made so that ye shall know I do a good job. Do not listen to those unbelievers who whould turn thee from the righteous way and lead thee in search of a spherical earth. See with your own eyes that the earth is flat and that I have made it so. Do not journey to the north and to the south, and to the west and even unto the east to find your beginning place, for if ye do so, ye will surely fall off the edge of the earth and be swallowed in the darkness forever. Follow the right path which leadeth in a circle on the face of the flat earth and keeps thee safe. The stars in the heavens have I planted there firmly in the firmament so that they shall not fall down upon thy heads and smite thee mightily. I have placed them there in many places, yea at many distances too, that ye may enjoy many hours at thy telescopes at a time when I cause thee to invent telescopes, and coke and cheetos too. All these things have I done and more that ye will know my power and believe it is I who have done this. In good time when ye are ready I will reveal to thee that the purpose of the flat round earth is so that it might sail beneath the heavens like a frizbee, yea even like a giant blue and green and brown frizbee from morning until night and then from night u <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Our Solar System must be passing through a Non Sequitur area of space. </div>

brellis · Aug 21, 2005

Aristarchus is credited as the earliest author of heliocentric theory, in which the moon and earth are spherical. It's an ironic pretext to current-day attempts to accredit Moses with "round-earth" theory that the Romans destroyed the records of Aristarchus when they burned the library at Alexandria. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better. </div>

toymaker · Aug 22, 2005

"but the concept was largely lost when the Christians began their deliberate obliteration of the pagan, Greco-Roman knowledge" Explain more.Tell more of the "deliberate" action.

majornature · Aug 23, 2005

That was a very interesting link. Are there any more links about "Ancient Earth"? Zochi Coisma Di Thom Pozix Xi!!!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> We are born. We live. We experiment. We rot. We die. and the whole process starts all over again! Imagine That! <img id="6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264" style="width:176px;height:247px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" width="276" height="440" /> </div>

CalliArcale · Aug 24, 2005

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />"but the concept was largely lost when the Christians began their deliberate obliteration of the pagan, Greco-Roman knowledge" Explain more.Tell more of the "deliberate" action. <hr /></blockquote> It occured largely in the time after the fall of the Roman Empire. You have to understand the sociopolitical climate of the time to understand why they did it; it does make sense if you try to see it from their perspective. Basically, the Roman Empire had just converted to Christianity, and it had been made the state religion. There were holdouts, of course. And the holdouts were encouraged by the fact that the emperor had moved his seat of power to Constantinople and really started neglecting his empire. It was falling apart. When the Visigoths sacked Rome, the emperor barely noticed. So of course people still living in Rome were furious, believing Christianity to be at fault for the decline of the empire. It wasn't; the decline began well before the reign of Constantine, the first Christian emperor. But it seemed like it to the patriotic pagans of Rome, which only increased their dedication to their ancient gods. Meanwhile, the Christian rulers were developing the opposite impression -- Rome was crumbling because of the pagan holdouts. After all, it was the pagan cities that were falling, and it was the pagans who were associated with anti-imperial factions within the hierarchy. Is it then any surprise that the Christian Roman rulers wanted to break ties with their pagan history? After all, they thought that history was weakening the empire. It wasn't wise or prudent and didn't serve them well in the long run. Constantinople fell to the Moors, the last tiny traces of Rome moved on to Kiev, a new Holy Roman Empire rose up in the West and in its first few centuries stamped on what was left of the Greco-Roman tradition, mainly out of ignorance of what it had to offer; all they cared was <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

one_billy · Aug 25, 2005

This is quite funny.Even in this day and age.There are still people that think the Earth is flat. http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

Saiph · Aug 25, 2005

The flat earth society is primarily a joke. and exerpt from their "current events" page: <blockquote>In reply to:<hr />-----After spending over sixteen million dollars and using over 48 thousand yards of industrial strength strapping tape, we of the Flat Earth Society were able to construct an enormously powerful neurotransmitter that can implant suggestions directly into the brains of the nearby non-Flat Earthers. Having set it up just outside of the Russian Antarctic exploration post (Vostok), we are awaiting word that all three scientists and 174 penguins have been shown the light<hr /></blockquote> It's relatively believable till then, but just gets funny after that. But there are people who believe it, I've talked to them, and enough were found for a special on, I think the learning channel. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> --------------------SaiphMOD@gmail.com -------------------"This is my Timey Wimey Detector. Goes "bing" when there's stuff. It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually. I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

CalliArcale · Aug 29, 2005

The most significant evidence about Earth geometry in pharonic times comes from their cosmology. It appears that they believed the Earth to be flat, or perhaps slightly rounded due to surface geography (mountains, hills, and things like that), resting under the vast dome of the sky. Notably, the Egyptians did not sail out of sight of land; while they had very active waterways, these were inland. You can't detect the curvature of the Earth just from sailing the Nile. In fact, with their whole society revolving around the rhythms of the Nile, it's fairly obvious how they came to see the world in their particular way. Their flat-earth model worked well enough for what they needed it to do. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

spacester · Sep 2, 2005

Eratosthenes came way after Aristarchus, isn't that right? So one guy figured it out and then much later someone else demonstrated it to be so. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

mrmux · Sep 3, 2005

On the sea, the horizon is just three miles away. You don't have to go far to see the ocean isn't flat. Eratosthenes might have done the first experiment that we know about, but I doubt he was trying to prove an unheard-of idea.

newtonian · Sep 16, 2005

brellis - Moses was inspired to write the following in about 1513 BCE: (Job 26:10) . . .He has described a circle upon the face of the waters, To where light ends in darkness. Scientists call this division between light and darkness the terminator. Genesis 1 shows earth was originally covered with water, and it is still mostly covered witb water. For the division between light and darkness on the surface (face) of the waters to be a circle, earth has to be a sphere. Confirming this shape Isaiah was inspired to write: (Isaiah 40:22 There is One who is dwelling above the circle of the earth, the dwellers in which are as grasshoppers, the One who is stretching out the heavens just as a fine gauze, who spreads them out like a tent in which to dwell, Here, Isaiah uses the Hebrew word hhug for circle, and this word means circle in plane geometry (2-d) and sphere in solid geometry (3-d). Isaiah was written c. 732 BCE, Moses wrote Job c. 1513 BCE. When did Aristarchus confirm that earth is round?

spaceman186000mps · Sep 18, 2005

Who discovered that the Earth was round? A very good question indeed. Who usually refers to one specific person or entity of beings. I'm just stating the following to point toward the obvious which may or may not be correct. Thought experiment. I am or you are but a single entity of somewhat intelligent design in some far away universe. This entity knows nothing of humans as Earthlings know they exist. This entity suddenly opens it's eye (where ever that may be on its body if it even has a body) and sees it's environment for the very first time. It first looks at what it can see of itself (except for the part the eye is located) and notices it has certain features. It can see most of itself ( except the top part where its eye is located) but since there are no mirrors on this planet it can't see the part that is doing the looking or wondering. Now... for the first time it sees another entity that has certain attributes like it has. But now it can see that this other being has an eye that is located in the middle of a blob that is the part of itself it has never been able to visualize as a whole unit before until now. Soon it rightfully rationalizes that it must be of the same species and that it also has a blob with an eye like it's proof kin. After many new first observations, this entity finally gets around to the equation of wondering what this big mass it exist on looks like. ( How it is shaped etc. ) It looks up. It then sees two very important clues. A round bright star close by and a round moon that is even closer and easy to view without squinting its blob. It does not realize yet that it only sees in a two dimensional frame reference. To it ( the entity ) round may also looks flat like a pancake. But it has never even seen a pancake either. Its still getting hungry and eating way too much VD and getting fatter. lol <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> 70 percent of novel proceeds www.trafford.com/06-1593 are donated to www.caringbridge.org </div>

votefornimitz · Sep 18, 2005

I don't think it matters, whoever its was was wrong. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> In the event of a full scale nuclear war or NEO impact event, there are two categories of underground shelters available to the public, distinguished by depth underground: bunkers and graves... </div>

newtonian · Sep 18, 2005

VoteforNimitz - come again? Do you think the earth is not round - i.e. that earth is flat, as in the flat earth society??? Or do we have here a misunderstanding?

votefornimitz · Sep 18, 2005

The picture to prove me right is right there....<img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> In the event of a full scale nuclear war or NEO impact event, there are two categories of underground shelters available to the public, distinguished by depth underground: bunkers and graves... </div>

newtonian · Sep 18, 2005

spaceman186000mps - Add this thought experiment: Try to take the position of the observer in Isaiah 40:22, i.e. the one whp dwells above the circle of the earth. How would earth appear to that observer? Remember, the context of Isaiah 40:22 refers to humans as less than dust on a weight scale, and as a mere unreality. That would be a correct assessment when viewing earth from a large distance away in our universe. The context is presenting earth as God views it. Since God can view earth from any direction, what does the 2-d circle shape prove? Any object that appears as a circle from all directions would have to be a sphere. Now, more down to earth, and on the thread theme: What were alternate contemporary models for the shape of earth? One common model is contained in the psuedipigrapha, Jewish writings. That would be a cube with many levels of Hell Fire over the edge. No wonder some later voyagers were fearful to navigate on sea to the west!!!

spaceman186000mps · Sep 18, 2005

Hi ! ... friend... spaceman186000mps - Add this thought experiment: Try to take the position of the observer in Isaiah 40:22, i.e. the one WHO dwells above the circle of the earth. I do take my position above your world but I still see flat round corners on your world. I see not (you) as an individual, nor would I recognize your entity because you are huge enough to me to pull a seemingly round splinter from my big blob eye. So altho I am born on Christmas, I do have trouble placing myself In Isiah a book that doesn't exist on my blob yet. All my worlds are flat round. And the square bright one over blob hurts my blob and I have to squint to discern that it is square but still very much flat ... Just having fun here. Nice talking with you all. How would earth appear to that observer? I do see your point here but bare with me. As your experiment suggest in Isaiah. I Am the great I Am. What every thing I Am compares itself to, is made in my image. Whatever I am looks like or feels. I am existing somewhere here among and within the Higgs Field... Popeye said it best... (Quote) I Am's what I am;s. yuk yuk yuk yuk. Now where's my spinach? Me's got a Brutus to whoops fer messin with Me Olives. Yuk Yuk Yuk Yuk... all in fun. keep smiling ... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> 70 percent of novel proceeds www.trafford.com/06-1593 are donated to www.caringbridge.org </div>

newtonian · Sep 19, 2005

Spaceman186000mps - Interesting sense of humor On flat round corners - did you realize that this is actually how the globe of the earth is represented by cartographers? The 4 hemispheres can be divided into 4 separate sections, and these do actually have flat round corners! I.e., flat on the map, rounded in 3-d This is the basis of the Biblical figure of speech: 4 corners of the earth. Interestingly, our describing 4 directions of wind is also the Biblical description, though the Bible does explain that winds follow cycles or circlings, as follows: (Ecclesiastes 1:6) . . .The wind is going to the south, and it is circling around to the north. Round and round it is continually circling, and right back to its circlings the wind is returning. This is a remarkably accurate ancient description of earth’s global winds, and quite in contrast with descriptions from other ancient sources, religious or otherwise. Note that east and west winds are not mentioned here. This is because it would then only describe surface winds such as in low and high pressure areas. Global winds are both horizontal and vertical, but they all share north and south as integral directions. The vertical winds of planet earth go up, north, down , south,. Or up, south, down, north. All winds circle. The horizontal ones do so because of the coriolis effect, which is caused by earth’s rotation as a sphere. The vertical ones are due to thermal currents, solar radiation. The Bible’s simple description is accurate and unique in the ancient literature; details were left for us to discover scientifically. Frankly, I love the clues contained within the Bible, and am thrilled at the joy of scientific discovery complimenting the simple, accurate overview presented in the Bible!

solrfusion · Nov 26, 2005

soon people will see that the bible is true. then they will want to know the principles. becouse they will see there is a fate to their actions. then as it says, the world will hear the word of god. the answer 2 everything is proof that god is the light of the world. in him their is no darkness! light energy= (light+mass)c2. subtract the mass and you will see the light.

eric2006 · Nov 26, 2005

Most stars just go through their motions night after night. Some stars never set, and Enoch was shown their chariots (1 Enoch 75:8). Stars that do rise and set do so through openings in dome, just like the sun and moon. God, according to 1 Enoch, runs a tight universe, and stars that do not rise on time are thrown into the celestial slammer. Showing Enoch a hellish scene, the angel Uriel explains: This place is the (ultimate) end of heaven and earth: it is the prison house for the stars and the powers of heaven. And the stars which roll over upon the fire, they are the ones which have transgressed the commandments of God from the beginning of their rising because they did not arrive punctually (1 Enoch 18:14-15). Enoch was not told the sentence for tardy rising, but Uriel later shows him other stars “which have transgressed the commandments of the Lord,” for which they were doing ten million years of hard time (1 Enoch 21:6). Enoch also was shown an even more terrible place, a fiery prison house where fallen angels were detained forever (1 Enoch 21:10).

newtonian · Nov 27, 2005

solrfusion - I agree the Bible is true. However, as you may realize, most of the world does not and will not accept those truths. On this thread, the simple fact that the Bible stated in c. 1513 BCE that the terminator over earth's waters is a circle is really the oldest statement showing earth is a sphere - the terminator can only be a circle if earth is a sphere. Ditto the statement in Isaiah 40:22, from c. 732 BCE, that earth is round, predates other "discoveries" that earth is round.

newtonian · Nov 27, 2005

Eric2006 - 1 Enoch is part of the Pseudepigrapha, not the Bible. 1 Enoch may have more than one author, however it is very old as Aramaic portions of it were found at Qumran, i.e. with the Dead Sea Scrolls. While later than Isaiah (732 BCE) and Job (1513 BCE) it is still relatively contemporary, as the Christian Greek Scriptures (aka New Testament) were written later than the Qumran Aramaic version of 1 Enoch. "However, it is clear that the work originated in Judea and was in use at Qumran before the beginning of the Christian period." -"The Old Testament Psuedepigrapha," Volume I, edited by James H. Charlesworth, 1983, from the Introdruction to 1 Enoch by translator E. Isaac. It is noteworthy that the astronomical cosmology in 1 Enoch is quite unscientific, i.e. scientifically inaccurate, compared with Biblical scientific accuracy. Remember that the pseudepigrapha, apocrypha and the Bible were written by Jews - however the Bible alone is scientifically accurate compared with these later books.

newtonian · Nov 27, 2005

Eric2006 - See this thread for more quotes of 1 Enoch concerning cosmology: http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=askastronomer&Number=164379&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart= That would be the thread I just resurected on comparing cosmologies, ancient and modern.

eric2006 · Nov 27, 2005

Enoch was not told the sentence for tardy rising, but Uriel later shows him other stars “which have transgressed the commandments of the Lord,” for which they were doing ten million years of hard time (1 Enoch 21:6) I found this verse to be very interesting. Ten million years of hard time. Someone back then was starting to get an idea of stars. I am assuming it is the same Enoch from the Bible though isn't it?

newtonian · Nov 27, 2005

Eric2006 - The title pseudepigrapha means "false writings." While attributed to the Biblical Enoch, who died before the Noachian flood, they are from a much later author. That is also typical of apocryphal writings, with a few exceptions. Note the similarity to the Hell Fire doctrine which is not found in the Bible but is found in nations surrounding ancient Israel. Later non-Biblical writings of Jews generally reflect the influence of the religions surrounding them. For example: "'I am frightened because of this terrible place and the spectacle of this painful thing.' And he said to me, 'This place is the prison house of the angels; they are detained there forever." - 1 Enoch 21:10 [So who in which level of Hell Fire are there for 10 million years?] The Bible, however, shows there is no conciousness and therefore no pain after death: (Ecclesiastes 9:5) 5 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all. . . If you carefully study 1 Enoch you will note that the earth is not presented as round, but rather having edges beyond which lie the multiple levels of Hell. False religious doctrines like these contributed to the fear of explorers before Columbus' time. As an example of how unscientifc the cosmology presented in 1 Enoch is, note this verse: "I saw the winds which turn the heaven and cause the star to set-- the sun as well as all the stars." - 1 Enoch 18:5 How much this is in contrast with the scientifically accurate description of earth's winds!: (Ecclesiastes 1:6) 6 The wind is going to the south, and it is circling around to the north. Round and round it is continually circling, and right back to its circlings the wind is returning. Note that the Bible omits here the east and west winds. This is because earth's wind cycles share north and south but not east and west com

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