Why go to the moon? Does anybody know? Because its Cheaper!!

[caper]

Somebody leave there cheese there? Come on the priorities are all screwed up. LISTEN FOLKS lets first a) find a CHEAPER way to off this planet b) Lets fire a few major rovers at Mars b) finish the money pit the ISS d) Develop some more ""ADVANCE ROCKETS" e.g. Vasimir.<br /><br />Then folks Lets go to the moon. Did we forget something there? Moon is boring to me!!!!!! <br /><br />PS GWB stay away from the space program OK !!

 

[halman]

I am not sure that I am parsing your code correctly. The first half makes sense, but leads to a section that is amiguous to me. "Then follks Lets go to the moon. did we forget something there moon Boring!!!!!"<br /><br />I agree we should go to the Moon, and we forgot a lot of things there, like how to accomplish goals. Without specific goals, the space program has wallowed about, trying to create its own reason for being.<br /><br />The Moon is a specific goal, where we can measure progress quickly, while learning how to get of off this rock as cheaply as we can. Once we have cut launch costs, we can send so many rovers to Mars that everyone can time share running one. No, wait a minute, that won't work. <br /><br />Mars is so far away that you can't work in real time, because at the speed of light it takes several minutes to get to Mars. The distance to Mars, which affects not only communications but transit times, means that we will have to learn a lot more slowly there than we can on the Moon. Everything we send to Mars will take months to replace if it does not work when it gets there.<br /><br />But lower launch costs will mean more Mars rovers, more knowledge to be stored up for when people actually go there. The harvest from Mars is likely to be nothing but data for a long time, because it won't export stuff in the forseeable future. The Moon, on the other hand is an excellant source for raw materials, which will be used to develop space-based industries.<br /><br />If we can only justify human space flight for scientific explaoration, we will not see much money spent on it. If space becomes an industrial zone, which it should, it will drive a revolution in space access, because flight rates will rise dramatically. The cost of energy on Earth is going to make it much more attractive to process materials where energy is free, if at all possible, and the Moon has many of the same materials that are found on Earth.<br /><br />Plus, you can see it from here. I <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[dan_casale]

Halman:<br />Excellent post. The same reasoning could be used to justify ISS before going to the Moon. I believe that we must find a way to make a profit at each stage of the journey.

 

[drwayne]

Tangential thought:<br /><br />A sound, long term approach to moving humans out into space does not, I am afraid, work well in an environment in which the budgetary attention span of our government, and, arguably our electorate, is measured on a scale of months.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[majornature]

The Moon is as fascinating as the planet. It controls the rides. Not to mention the spectacular light show it has when it aligns with the sun. The moon is a very interesting place with no gravity and you have a spectacular view of stars and other planets.<br /><br />Fascination encourage adventure!!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#14ea50"><strong><font size="1">We are born.  We live.  We experiment.  We rot.  We die.  and the whole process starts all over again!  Imagine That!</font><br /><br /><br /><img id="6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264" style="width:176px;height:247px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" width="276" height="440" /><br /></strong></font> </div>

 

[henryhallam]

<font color="yellow"><br />The moon is a very interesting place with no gravity<br /></font><br /><br />Please can we ban this obvious troll.

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"Please can we ban this obvious troll. "</font><br /><br />If the mods were to ban everyone that primarily posted drivel bad enough to annoy your average chimpanzee, then we'd have to teach crickets how to create new posts or endure a heckuva lot of silence. <br /><br />Of course you then have to decide if having dozens of posts that are nothing more than a series of *chirp* sounds is more or less annoying than drivel.

 

[quasar2]

excellent post as usual. the term "testing ground" has somehow a bad rep. & has led to differing opinions the subject. anything we do on the Lunar Surface will be useful. for one thing, it`ll be proof it can be done. this gives others incentive. we must remember that others are waiting in the wings, unlike the past. so absolutely no comparison can be made to the past. we have capabilities now to instead of a return from Lunar Surface, go beyond. now we have arguments against this, that stopping on The Moon is useless, etc.. <br /><br />& yes i wholeheartedly agree. if the ultimate goal is Mars, we concentrate there & only there. but reality doesn`t work that way, things can go wrong. The Moon is excellent for rescues, for one thing, this would almost merit a whole thread. & the term rescue has differing connotations. what if MarsCrew can`t return to Earth? i`ll say this here, if i were member of MarsCrew, my choice would be to stay in OuterSpace instead of returning to Earth. as much work as a Mars Mission would be returning to Earth would be psychologically depressing. & of course staying on Mars would eventually become depressing too. <br /><br />this especially if it became trashed. & it will, trust me. how much junk do we have scattered across the Solar System? & some of it`s considered sacred? we can clean SpaceJunk easier from Luna than Mars. & possibly salvage too. that just my perspective, make the Moon a junkyard. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[halman]

Most people probably perceive the space program as one of scientific exploration, and are not expecting any big construction programs, because we are running deficits, health care costs are going through the roof, and energy costs are starting to threaten the profitability of a lot of campanies. What people fail to realize is that the only reason our economy has not tanked yet is because it keeps growing, at an annual rate of around 3.5 percent right now.<br /><br />If we are going to continue economic growth, we have to invest in new technologies, new industries. But there are very few areas left where there is much room for the ultra-high tech that is the American specialty, and we are losing that technology to other countries. <br /><br />One area that few, if any, countries can compete with us right now is space technology. By really teaming up with the Russians, and investing one-quarter of what we spend on the military every year, we might be able to make a place for ourselves in a future of globalization. We must stop thinking of space exploration as science and start thinking of it as a frontier, someplace to be developed. And the Moon is the closest, most visible place, and offers the widest variety of resources for us to utilize. Spending 30 or 40 billion a year on science in any one area is hard to justify, but investing that amount into technology which can open up a frontier is not.<br /><br />And anyone who thinks that the Moon is boring has no imagination, because living and working on the Moon would be an incredible experience, even if you do stay underground all the time, so that you don't get 'cosmic', or burned up by cosmic rays, sunshine, and whatever else is zinging around out there. Just imagine living in one-sixth gravity for a few months! And the commute to and from the job site! A lot of people would work months just for that! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[strandedonearth]

Now that would be one heck of a commute. And I hate long commutes!<br /><br />But... At least I won't have to deal with traffic jams...<br /><br />Where do I sign up?

 

[cyrostir]

the main reason people ignore the moon is because we have already been there, its gonna be tough to convince people that the moon is a place of long term profit

 

[halman]

cyrostir,<br /><br />Most people who remember the Apollo landings would probably say that we had not even gotten started learning what there is to know about the Moon. The Moon has a surface area about the same as Africa's. Would you believe that 10 men could thoroughly explore Africa in 10 days?<br /><br />What we did learn about the Moon is very tantalizing, such as it seems to be composed of nearly the same elements in the same proportions as Earth. Could the Earth and the Moon been one body at some time in the distant past? Why is the Earthside of the Moon so different from Farside? Few people can imagine the intellectual shock that resulted from the first pictures of Farside, because everyone thought that it would be the same as Earthside.<br /><br />The Moon represents huge quantities of raw materials, lying very close to a realm where huge amounts of energy are available 24/7. By lifting those raw materials into orbit around the Sun, it will be possible to manufacture materials which have only existed in laboratories, or the imagination. Those who say that such materials will always be too expensive to ship back to Earth have never heard of a golf club that sells for $300, or a bicycle frame that fetches $5,000. And many of the things that will be created will be very mundane, such as foamed ceramic roofing and siding tiles, which will last longer than the house that they are attached to. Tell a homeowner that a new roof will never have to be replaced and he will find ways to pay for it.<br /><br />No one can say what use we will make of the Moon. But only a fool will maintain that it can be of no use. Human ingenuity has repeatedly found ways to utilize what was thought to be worthless, such as gasoline, silica, and telephones. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[cyrostir]

im not saying that we shouldnt go to the moon.......<br />i am saying the general public's opinion is taht we've been there and tthere is nothing worth going there for again

 

[davp99]

"general public's opinion is that(sp) we've been there and there(sp) is nothing worth going there for again"<br /><br /> <br />Care to supply some proof for that statement.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="4">Dave..</font> </div>

 

[lunatio_gordin]

The public thinks that there's moon bases for crying out loud. A few years ago i decided to have an april fool's joke where a Moon base fired a laser cannon at the space station. Almost everyone i showed it to believed it... Maybe if people had some idea what was going on outside their own little world they could see why we need to return.

 

[halman]

Lunatio_Gordin,<br /><br />Those who believe that we already have bases on the Moon probably balance out those who believe that the Moon landings were faked in a Hollywood sound stage.<br /><br />I would sure like to see television pictures that say "Live from the Moon" being made again.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[alokmohan]

We have to terraform moon to live.How you takr oxygen out there?MOREOVER YOU CAN HEAR AS LONG AS IT IS VACUUM.mOON BASE IS TO SOME EXTENT ABSURD.Mars base is to some extent feasible.

 

[grooble]

I think the moon would be better for bases, and mars for long term colonisation.

 

[cuddlyrocket]

We have to go to the Moon because people might be willing to pay for that, but they wouldn't be willing to pay for a trip to Mars, which has a lot to do with perceived uncertainties that Moon missions would go a long way to dispelling.<br /><br />Also, one model for the economic expansion of mankind into space is based on space tourism, and the obvious next step after sub-orbital then orbital would be lunar. Missions to the Moon will pave the way.

 

[lunatio_gordin]

what..? there is no terraforming the moon... it just can't happen. it's too small to have a decent atmosphere.

 

[lunatio_gordin]

but people living on the moon won't be returning to earth, necessarily. They might adapt to life on the moon, getting taller and having thinner bones, but they wouldn't matter because they won't be going to Earth. And the same thing could happen on mars as well. Since Earth is THE largest solid planet in the system, people living on the moon would still have access to all of the other worlds (except Venus.) They could travel to Mars, Ganymede, Europa or Titan without having to worry so much about the change in gravity.

 

[halman]

Terraforming has nothing to do with whether or not we can live somewhere. With enough energy, we can live almost anywhere. And the reasons to go to the Moon have nothing to do with whole bunches of people living there. We need to go to the Moon so that we can go on living on Earth. By that I mean that our industrial operations on Planet Earth will eventually kill humanity, but we can go on living with the benefits of a industrial society by removing the industry from the planet.<br /><br />Developing technologies for living on other worlds will merely be a side benefit to utilizing the Moon. Although some heart patients might be able to survive many years longer living in low gravity, most people will be rotated back and forth to the Moon, just as they are to off-shore oil platforms and the North Slope of Alaska. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[lunatio_gordin]

I'm talking about colonists, not short term visitation. and i never mentioned Terraforming. this is sort of the opposite of terraforming: instead of changing the world to fit us, we change ourselves to fit the planet. <br />i was responding to Alokmohan saying it's impossible to live on the moon unless we terraform it. I say it's inevitable.

 

[quasar2]

in my opinion, it would be safer to have babies born on Mars rather than Luna. for the simple fact of the gravity. however a Mars born child would probably delight in a lower gravity than Mars, so Luna is perfect for this. a child born on The Moon would be too weak to go to Mars. we wouldn`t wanna limit these children`s abilities. i think they would already be limited enough in that probably couldn`t go to Earth. & it`s entirely possible they wouldn`t want to. for one thing, they be targets for kidnappers. they`d hafta be sequestered in ambassadors quarters. perhaps some day, however we`ll comeup w/ exoskeletons, drugs, artificial gravity, etc.. so we gotta deal w/ current tech. what would be really great is if we could find another world, moon, asteroid, etc., which could also be less than Mars. like say, Cruithne, or Ceres, something accesible to a Spacefaring Mars facility. this would increase interest. because it appears we gotta base everything on Mars as far as long-term living arrangements. but The Moon is quite obviously still useful for vacations, mining, conferences, astronomics, science, rescue ops, etc.. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[cdr6]

We need to go to the Moon and do the home work (eg. how much water does a single person use? How much air do we need, how much food. What do we do with human waste? How do you clean a space suit, zippers et al? How do you do maintenance on a rover...how long before a rover requires maintenance? How do you maintain a hab? What kind of skill sets do we need...test pliots need not apply?<br /><br />Much can be simulated on earth? No, because the real thing is much different than the simulation. (An example of this is the fact that aircraft fly one way in a wind tunnel, in free air it's a different story altogether, and computer sims are just a "best guess".) All simulation and wind tunnel work has to be verified by actual flight.<br /><br />This is especially true of "space flight"...I often find myself forgeting that we have no space flight/basing abilities at all. (I.S.S. is not of much help in this regard.)<br /><br />This is a whole new ball game about which we know nothing. Mars is a quantum leap beyond that...before we attempt flight to and basing on, the Red Planet we need to have have some sort of idea/data of what it's going to take. For me Mars is THE big deal, and we are as yet unprepaired to do it right or safely. Mars is a vastly more complex planet than our relitively begnin Moon. We need to know what is the basics before we go, and the Moon is the best place to start.