<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>A tremendous amount of the science fiction that I read takes place either ten years into the future or ten-thousand years into the future. In the former, little has changed from present times. In the latter, man has expanded to the stars with technology so far extrapolated from present day science that it might as well be magic. Good literature on the interim period is hard to find. I am having a tremendous amount of trouble envisioning a scenario in which man expands beyond Earth and colonizes space. And I'm not talking Space Arks hurled towards the next nearest star--I mean expansion even within our own solar system. What would prompt a large enough mass of people to live anywhere but Earth?The answer, at least in my mind, is almost certainly an economic one: someone discovers some sort of economic value in space, a critical mass of people pursuing this primary industry gather, making the provision of secondary industries from space-to-space more profitable than Earth-to-space, and then I suppose things grow from there. Though what that economic value is and how things would grow is rather fuzzy to me (heck, it's all fuzzy to me).The alternative, of course, is that the entire thought is a sham and it is most likely that people will never leave Earth in any sustainable number.Anyway, I'm just not knowledgable enough to figure this out on my own, and none of my friends seem interested in the idea, so I thought I would register to a few forums and ask the experts what the most likely outcome was or what hypothetical scenarios could get man living beyond Earth. And here I am.So have you ever thought about what the impetus might be? P.S. I don't really buy the "Earth runs out of resources and people flee to space" theory, again because of economics. It seems more likely that we will simply start recycling and reprocessing the resources we've already used once it becomes profitable to do so vs. just tearing new ones out of the earth.Hopefully this is the right forum to be asking this question in. <br />Posted by Blertola</DIV></p><p> </p><p>Blertola: I fear most of us could only give you our perceptions based upon a certain knowledge within an uncertain world. And the reality of where we are as a “human” race, postulates an ignorance far greater than our capacity of reaching for the stars. Sure there are a few enlightened among us who know what mans destiny should be & can be. But until mankind can throw off the bonds of tyranny that binds him to this earth: He if ever, will forever be doomed by his own dismal traits, to be the pathological self possessed race they seem to be. </p><p>There are three main tyrannies that greatly self prohibit mankind’s advance into the universe. And perhaps I should put this to you in a way we all here should understand. </p><p>1) Mankind as a singular Earth race - has been and always will be a petty, selfish driven by greed - Ferengi race. </p><p>2) Mankind as a singular Earth race - has been and always will be a petty doubtful, distrusting, mistrusting, suspicious Romulan race.</p><p>3) Mankind as a singular Earth race - feeds on misery, desolation, hopelessness, anguish, gloom, depression, despondency, & dejection. This is their, our food, as repulsive as Klingon worms, or African’s drinking blood vamipirishly from a living cow, an Asian drinking blood vampirishly from a living snake. </p><p>This is the race that you ask to take you to the Horse Head Nebulae, Andromeda, Pluto, let alone Mars or back to Earth’s own moon? </p><p>Scholars, Seer’s, and yes even Holy Men have tried to tell us how to get there. One even stating “When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.” And that same being, who has been thought of as divine origin, virtue and power, throughout his teachings spoke to & of mankind as a child - until the very end, what he termed the “end of days“. And those “childish” things he spoke of that makes mankind “childish”? See and read #’s 1,2 & 3 above again! <u>If your child acted this way, what would you do? What did he do?</u> And last, he did say what that remedy was, didn’t he. The one sentence that bound all others together. “And now abide in faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity. Charity rejoices not in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth…” </p><p><u>I am not a religious person. I do not espouse a singular vision of faith.</u> Yet this one Holy Man knew, just as many others knew, what the problems mankind faced in getting back to his origins: And it wasn‘t his ability and science that could take him back there: It was his own ignorance that would and could. And any gods, deity’s who espoused differently were and are not looking out for our best interest, but were merely the charlatan religious orders that mankind dreamt of - for living here & staying here and being the ignorant children their cults demanded. For our future was never intended to be “here on earth”, our destiny was the stars, but only if we as a unified race would and could find our way & “grow up”!</p><p>Look around you today, what do you see? Is there Greed? Is there mistrust? Is there depression? And do you see Charity? Forgiveness of debts? And the list goes on and on. Not the least of which are wars, all corruptible by the same in #‘s 1,2 & 3 above. The answer to your question is no, we won’t be going there. We can’t, we wont, because of 1, 2 & 3 are more self important. For that same prophet, who spoke those previous words, spoke of war and the end of days in the same sentence. People never have understood those words, never! And yet here they are. </p><p>And you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. </p><p>“Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all… And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold….and then shall the end come.” </p><p>Does this sound to anyone that there could be any faith, hope or charity left in mankind to reach for the stars? Does this sound like mankind “grew up” and learned war no more? <u>Even Nostradamus</u> gives us these same dire predictions: With not one mention of mankind in space, going no further than the moon. </p><p>Just look at our own political party’s in this country, the U.S. of A. The republicans are more Fascist than at any time in our country‘s history. The Democrats are more Marxist/Lenninist than at other time in our history. And yet this is/was and presumably will be the choices we have to elect our government “of the people by the people for the people“, that it should not perish from the earth? </p><p><u>I am a scientist.</u> I look to other sources to find the scientific answers. And Yes even religious sources, for <u>they are the oldest written scientific sources we have.</u> I view them as historical, not religious. But I find in their words truth, a frightening terrible truth, that mankind fulfills each and every day because of ignorance! <u>The same ignorance that Nostradamus speaks of in his volumes. </u></p><p>You want mankind to go to the stars? Help your government to understand how important this is to you and your descendents. For the Star Trek World that Gene Roddenberry envisioned is a guide. He perhaps more than anyone else knew that mankind would have to unite to get into space. That we couldn’t be 1 race among many, facing the quadrillions who inhabited the universe; if we were to survive. We had to have no debt, no coin exchange, and that takes charity. </p><p>Perhaps Barack Obama’s presidency will change all that for the US. But I doubt it. If he doesn’t see the vision as Kennedy did in his speech at Rice University: Then we are bound to the earth for 8 more years, where wars, recession-depression - greed governs our destiny. </p><p><br /><br /> </p>