5 Dimensional Blackholes?

[kyle_baron]

All blackholes are 1 dimensional space. That would be up and down, towards the singularity. Whenever I see 5 dimensional blackholes in the press, I think that it means that the blackhole is in our 4 dimensional space/time + 1 more dimension of it's space. 4+1=5 Do you guys (and gals) agree? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

4th dimension is time..Fifth dimension hyperspace is one thing we cant conceive.It may or may not exist.

 

[weeman]

I suppose if blackholes are gateways into the 5th dimension of hyperspace, then you could say that they do exist in 5 dimensions. Everything in the Universe exists in 4 dimensions right? So, it wouldn't seem too bizarre if blackholes did indeed exist with one extra dimension. <br /><br />So if we were to ever conclude that blackholes are entrances to wormholes, then it would almost seem definite that they exist with that 5th dimension. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Techies: We do it in the dark. </font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>"Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.</strong><strong>" -Albert Einstein </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

Hyperspace is not matter of real unverse.They are thoeritical only.

 

[oscar1]

I don't think Black Holes (if they exist) are 1-dimensional. The singularity, whatever that incorporates matterwise, is the centre of gravitational force, a force that exhibits/expresses itself spherically, i.e. 3-dimensionally. Since time slows down as gravity increases, time may be at a standstill in the sphere of a Black Hole, so I would think that from a dimensional point of view, the Black Hole will be 0 (the singularity/the centre) + 3 (the gravitational sphere) + 0 (time) vs our 3 + 1. But then, what really is a dimension? Which one of our senses is to determine the reality of dimensions? If it is the eyes, than how do I classify what I see through a "Viewmaster"? If it is touch, than this sense fails to detect bacteria (even an ant would be difficult to feel), while hearing, smelling and tasting can't help at all here.

 

[kyle_baron]

<font color="yellow"><br />4th dimension is time..Fifth dimension hyperspace </font><br /><br />I agree with you Alokmohan. Hyperspace is probably what the press is talking about, when they say 5 dimensional blackholes. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

<font color="yellow"><br />Hyperspace is not matter of real unverse.They are thoeritical only. </font><br /><br />Agreed. Hyperspace is theoretical, as this link indicates. Also, it is in a class of string theory dimensions:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperspace_theory<br /><br />How about wormholes? Because they're valid solutions to Einstein's General Relativity, do you (or anyone else) think that they're more or less likely to exist than hyperspace? I believe that we're talking about two different animals, hyperspace being a higher dimension, while wormholes allow a travel short cut within the same dimension. Here's a link to wormholes:<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

<font color="yellow"><br />I don't think Black Holes (if they exist) are 1-dimensional. The singularity, whatever that incorporates matterwise, is the centre of gravitational force, a force that exhibits/expresses itself spherically, i.e. 3-dimensionally. Since time slows down as gravity increases, time may be at a standstill in the sphere of a Black Hole, so I would think that from a dimensional point of view, the Black Hole will be 0 (the singularity/the centre) + 3 (the gravitational sphere) + 0 (time) vs our 3 + 1. </font><br /><br />Actually, we're both right, but you are more correct than I am. Apparently, I was thinking about a non-rotating (Schwarzschild) blackhole. It would be like taking a non-rotating Earth, and shrinking it down to 9cm. in diameter. These blackholes are not found in nature (yet). However, they're part of Einstein's field equations for General Relativity.<br /><br />You're thinking about a rotating (Kerr) blackhole. In that case, the 3 spacial dimensions would apply without the time dimension. The time dimension would not exist in the non-rotating blackhole either. This link talks a little about both rotating and non-rotating blackholes. Remember, that once past the event horizon, spaghettification of matter in a non-rotating blackhole is 1 dimensional space. <br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_singularity <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[oscar1]

", that once past the event horizon, spaghettification of matter in a non-rotating blackhole is 1 dimensional space."<br /><br />I cannot help but thinking that three dimensions are the minimum for anything tangible to us. What would one dimension be? It would have to be an infinitely long straight line, and infinitely thin, for if the line would end somewhere, there would be an edge or corner, making the line two dimensional. But even this two dimensional line wouldn't stick, because if it is infinitely thin, it wouldn't exist [as something we could detect]. And as Hawking himself puts it, two dimensional beings can't exist, for they would fall apart into two pieces, due to the digestive tract needed for us to be. So from a logic and anthropic point of view, we cannot deal with anything less than three dimensions. Also, the spagettification of soft matter (after having passed through the event horizon), as well as a Black Hole rotating, can be disputed, since it would require the fourth dimension, time, for it to 'take place', no matter how minute. <br />

 

[alokmohan]

The Question<br />(Submitted January 29, 1997)<br /><br />Is a black hole planar? Like, if you went UNDER a hole, what would happen? <br /><br /><br />The Answer<br />Black holes are really 4-dimensional (3 dimensions of space and 1 of time). Sometimes we see drawings of a black hole that may make it look like it's 2 dimensional, but that's because we don't know how to draw 4 dimensional objects on a piece of paper. <br />Best wishes<br />The Quest From NASA WEBSITE.<br />

 

[oscar1]

I reckon that we are a long way away from knowing what goes on within the sphere [beneath the event horizon] of a Black Hole (if such actually exists). If nothing can travel faster than light, gravity should also not be able to escape, but it does, and how! It could be that gravity 'can travel without time', or rather, simply 'be', while light requires time to travel, in that light is held back not by the gravity, but by the lack of time around/near a Black Hole. <br /><br />Where the impossibility of three or four dimensional images on a piece of paper are concerned, that is because the surface of the piece of paper is two dimensional by view.

 

[alokmohan]

1.There is strong evidence that black holes may exist.Cynus1 emitted x rays and it was evidence in favour. 2.nobody has claimed that gravity has faster than light motion.

 

[oscar1]

"2.nobody has claimed that gravity has faster than light motion."<br /><br />So what gives it the ability to escape, while light can't?

 

[kyle_baron]

<font color="yellow"><br />"2.nobody has claimed that gravity has faster than light motion." <br /><br />So what gives it the ability to escape, while light can't?</font><br /><br />I think you're asking the wrong question (naughty, naughty, <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). The gravitational field creates space/time, as my signiture indicates. The gravity of the particular mass, is the GEOMETRY (funnel) of that particular space. The so called gravitational waves, may never be found! No exchange of particles, and no waves! I think we should be open, to that possibility. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[oscar1]

I tend to agree with you there. It is just that some people believe that there must be something like gravitons. I personally believe that gravity just is, as it knows no time. Yet before we know what gravity really is, c.q. agree on what gravity could be, it is rather difficult to discuss it, and it's behaviour, in any material fashion.

 

[dragon04]

For a moment, let's work with a BH that has no accretion disk. For whatever reason, the Space Fiend at the singularity has munched any and all matter within several LY.<br /><br />No matter from which angle the BH was viewed, it would look like....well, a black hole.<br /><br />We've all seen the traditional graphic representation for the gravity well of a BH. The ubiquitous funnel.<br /><br />Now. Try to model that in 3 physical dimensions taking every possible angle into consideration. Can't do it. Gotta have a 4th physical dimension to "see" that hypersphere, I think.<br /><br />I think the accretion disk we see is misleading. Unless the gravity of a BH only acts through a narrow "band" around its "equator". But that wouldn't be right either, because the "band" would have to be two dimensional.<br /><br />I guess I'm ineptly trying to say that the gravity well that our funnel depicts only works in 3 physical dimensions if the singularity expresses its gravitational pull in one and only one direction and on a one dimenasional line.<br /><br />If the singularity expresses its gravity omnidirectionally, you end up with a very strange creature and not one completely describable in 3 physical dimensions. In that case, all we see is its "shadow".<br /><br />My apologies if I'm incorrect. By no means am I proposing that I'm correct. And if I'm not, I'd love an explanation that satisfies this dilemma I have with trying to picture gravity wells of any body in 3 physical dimensions.<br /><br />4 physical dimensions + time = your 5d BH<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[kyle_baron]

I can't find any fault with your logic Mr. Spock, errrrr....Mr. Dragon <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />But, to clarify the 4 physical dimensions:<br />1. Up-Down<br />2. Left-Right<br />3. Front-Back<br />4. Hyperspace <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>

 

[yevaud]

John Archibald Wheeler:<br /><br /><i>Matter tells space how to curve. Space tells matter how to move.</i> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

Nice complement to father of black hole.