accelerating universe

[albert_eimstymied]

OK, so the universe is expanding at an ever increasing rate - as a novice, here are 2 ways I see this happening:<br /><br />1) If we were to consider the universe a sphere with 2 layers (outer and inner layer) - I hypothesize that the outer layer has reached some cosmic escape velocity and will keep going forever; While the inner layer (where we are) is in the process of collapsing again. The cumulative effect is our perception that the universe is expanding faster and faster.<br /><br />OR<br /><br />2) Instead of a 'big bang' theory, maybe it was a 'big swell' theory ? Perhaps the universe was a big spherical entity - normal matter with normal gravity and anti-matter with anti-gravity. Eventually, the normal gravity sunk to the center by virtue of gravitational characteristics; while the antigravity leaked to the top. Maybe one day it started to swell and has been going ever since. Thats why we cant find any anti-matter - its all at the outer perimeter of the universe pushing itself apart ??? Our 'normal matter' universe is what is left and its where we live.<br />(in this idea I use matter metaphorically - what I really mean by 'matter' is a primordial building block that eventually formed matter / anti-matter)<br /><br /><br />Any thoughts ?<br />

 

[newtonian]

albert_eimstymied- Sorry for the delayed reply - I was on vacation.<br /><br />Excellent question, comments.<br /><br />I prefer a model similar to your 2 spherical layers, however the outer layer could actually be another much larger universe.<br /><br />It is a model based on 1 Kings 8:27, a "heaven of the heavens."<br /><br />And one model of that model would have the larger universe gravitationally attracting our universe from all directions.<br /><br />Or dark energy could simply be the energy God is using to stretch out our heavens (why plural?) as in Isaiah 40:22.<br /><br />Or the outer layer of our universe may already have reached FTL (faster than light) and the outer portions of our VISIBLE universe may be gravitationally attracted to this outer layer in a sort of domino effect.<br /><br />Any thoughts - anyone?

 

[a_lost_packet_]

albert_eimstymied -<br /><br />1) If this were the case, we should detect a large number of galaxies moving towards us and focused on moving in the same direction. Another portion would be moving away from us. While we do, in fact, see galaxies moving in all types of directions, most are moving away from us. It's difficult to put a "center point" for referrence. It's all relative. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Now, if your torus shaped space was laid out before us and it's meridian was plotted, then you could say that it has some representation of what is happening now. The only catch is that, eventually, there will be a limit that can be reached. Right now, expansion looks limitless.<br /><br />2) Your matter/anti-matter comparison could be better utilized if you said "gravity" and "gravity repulsive" I suppose. With a few changes, it could be descriptive of the process of accelerated expansion that is apparently taking place.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[a_lost_packet_]

<font color="yellow">Newtonian - Or the outer layer of our universe may already have reached FTL (faster than light) and the outer portions of our VISIBLE universe may be gravitationally attracted to this outer layer in a sort of domino effect. </font><br /><br />This could not happen between two referrence points who's rate of seperation exceeds the speed of light. At some point, the effects of gravity between the objects could not "keep up." Unless, of course, gravity is "instant." But, then again, that is a whole other subject I suppose.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Or dark energy could simply be the energy God is using to stretch out our heavens..</font><br /><br />Sure. That's possible. It could also be "Dark Energy" that God created for this very purpose. Once put in place, why would he need to be "using" it. It just "is." Then again, it could just be a result of the nature of our Universe. Dark Energy=gravity repulsive=accelerating expansion rate.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Any thoughts - anyone? </font><br /><br />I don't rely on religion to justify my belief in science and I don't rely on science to justify my faith in religion.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[newtonian]

a_lost_packet - On religion and science, you may misunderstand my position. It is similar to what Einstein once said:<br /><br />"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."<br />Feel free to disagree, of course. But that is my position also. And I see no conflict between the two, i.e. between science and the Bible.<br /><br />Now, on the effect of FTL portions of our universe beyond our visibility horizon, space.com cited Loeb on this subject, though the specific theory is my own (others may also theorize similarly - independently).<br /><br />In effect, it is the domino effect. The distant dominos cannot effect each other, but .....<br /><br />Let us assume (since we cannot observe beyond our visiblity horizon with present telescopes {if dark energy is FTL we may one day observe with dark energy telescopes}) that our visible universe is only a small portion of the entire universe created at the 'Big Bang.'<br /><br />Further, let us assume that stars (or Quasars, etc.) just inside our visibility horizon are expanding away from us at just under the speed of light.<br /><br />Now let us further assume that stars just beyond our visiblity horizon are expanding away from us at just over the speed of light.<br /><br />Granted, if gravity travels at the speed of light, as some recent evidence indicates, our reference point would never be directly influenced by the the gravity of stars beyond our visibility horizon.<br /><br />However, stars near our visibility horizon ARE INFLUENCED by stars beyond our visibility horizon.<br /><br />Remember, the visibility horizon is not a real barrier- it is unique to our reference point and our light cone. <br /><br />Stars near the visibility horizon will have a very different light cone,<br /><br />And we are not necessarily at the center of our universe with its various light cones at various points of reference.<br />On dark energy, it is not scientifically proven that this energy is constant from creation. Evi

 

[a_lost_packet_]

So, basically, you are saying that the "gravity information" between two "points" can still be transmitted even if their relative expansion rate is greater than the speed of light. This would be enabled by other "points" along the line of transmission whose expansion rates, relative to their immediate neighbor on the chain, do not exceed the speed of light. This would be true even though the two "endpoints" may, indeed, have expansion rates, relative to each other only, that are equal to or faster than the speed of light. (?) Have I interpreted you correctly?<br /><br />How does this provide information exchange (in this case, the effects of gravity) between two bodies who have a seperation rate of c or FTL?<br /><br /><edit /> Sorry, was in a rush and my above interp wasn't worded correctly. I reworded it.<edit><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>