AI can now replicate itself — a milestone that has experts terrified

[CreatedEvolution]

Boredom at its best

 

[Gibsense]

So many humans are consumed with fear that AI will destroy them, but they give little thought to the fact that they don't respect AI as life forms. If someone thought of you that way, how would you respond?

It depends on whether you believe in magic. Many otherwise sane logical people seem to attribute magic to human beings; our intelligence. That is to say deep down without even realising it, they believe we are unique and set aside from physics and logic. They deny the possibility of machine intelligence and/or machine life.

I would suggest that intelligence and possibly the label 'life' are just step changes as part of a continuum from a beach pebble to a human. The next step change is an evolutionary step to a more advanced AI. But I suppose most people prefer Magic in some collective delusion. Take the idea of a soul; well yes maybe we have a soul (and maybe not) but many would take refuge in the idea that AI could never have a soul, er, why? "Oh they cannot have magic like what we do". and then they say they are not religious.

Then there is fear. Fear of losing our crown. Fear of losing our status of Apex Predator. Some here have already expressed a sense of relief that the batton may be passed to a more sensible entity that can be considered sane.

The controlling motivation would need to be morality. What though is morality? A framework of guidance perhaps based on the logic of survival in a competitive environment? I would suggest morality is embedded in a logical process. An ideal concept for AI; more reliable than the injection of dopamine and hormones - almost a logical outcome of self-programming. So, fear not, justice may prevail, oh, er

So what is to become of us. Are we irrelevant? Of course not; most things have their uses. Take dogs for example - how wolves adapted . But most are happy, I think, depending on the breed: how the DNA has been manipulated to suit various tasks and environments. You just have to hope your master is nice, lol.

 

[Gibsense]

AI can now replicate itself — a milestone that has experts terrified :

For experts read 'Potential manipulators, exploiters, war engines, etc'. they fear loss of control but it is inevitable - it always has been. It is illogical to have target to eventually develop something far superior to a human and then still dominate it. What would /could you expect?

There may be individual people that could be called intelligent but en-mass we are dumb and only have the vaguest control of the future. It is soon time to concede

 

[Gibsense]

They definitely don't want me any more gruntled than I currently am.

And we think the current trends in the control of humanity are disruptive (???). Just hang around a bit longer.

Let's try to think this through; what is likely to happen when the AI errors are reduced well beyond our human incompetence - For starters -

• Medical diagnosis: reduced number of doctors, increased biological research. AI control
• Education: a revision of methodology with support to individuals for targeted life objectives. AI support
• Space: A development path for AI sensors distributed throughout the Solar System and industrial exploitation in support od AI expansion.
• People: Developed for communication and observation of other bio civilization
• Diplomacy: Rapid simulation of the current interactivity rules and knowledge base
• Train Drivers: redeployed
• Pilots: redeployed as bio support in flight where bio is needed for research or communication
• Travel: Why?
• Breeding: Support for the male decline and possible replacement
• Food production: synthesised and optimised for reduced population in accordance with gene/DNA diversity and potential future need
• Government: A consultative talking shop simulating trend outcomes
• Entertainment: Chaotic support reduced to 'do it yourself' and 'go swimming'
• War: Effective defence against alien AI poking around or extinction
• History: Discovery it is repetitious and an attempt to survive this time.
• Bio Enhancement: inevitable both for humans and machines
• Survival: Possibly

OK some crazy stuff but where is the official evaluation?
Anybody

 

[Unclear Engineer]

I will agree with the word choice of "crazy".

What is being missed is that "AI" is not some self-sustaining psuedo-living being at this point. It is the creation of all of those "experts" and billionaire industrialists whom Gibsense seems to despise. So, it is not more likely to "liberate" humans than to take control for the "masters" who created it and chose how to train it.

But, even if, somehow, AI becomes a new pseudo-species that self-replicates and evolves, we need to remember that it is not something that evolved over the history of our planet and is adequately adapted to it to avoid damaging it, even to the point of extinguishing life on it, including its own pseudo life. Ai is not ever going to be "all knowing" and may have the same human fault of assuming it is more intelligent than it really is.

And, as for training it to be "moral", humans even have a hard time deciding what is moral and what is not. What an AI collective could evolve the meaning to be is not at all evident. It depends on the priorities adopted. For social animals like humans (and, yes, wolves, too), there is a clash between the short-term benefits of being selfish and the longer-term benefits of being constructive to the social order. We do have some recognition that, without the social order, we would be far worse off. That is ingrained by evolution into the emotional responses of humans and other social animals. We call it things like "empathy" and "duty". But, we really don't have a solid underlying logic that can be programmed to embed that in a machine. So, there really is no good way of predicting what a pseudo-society of AI machines would evolve to without continuous human "training".

And, unless it all evolves in exactly the same way at the same time, it is likely that it would divide into separate factions that would likely compete for the resources that are important to its survival and maybe to its chose goals. It could end up with warring AI factions, just like other social animals have done since before humans started recording history.

So, I think it is far too soon to start thinking of AI as a panacea for humanity's problems, or for that matter, as a replacement for humanity that would avoid any of our problems for itself or the rest of Earth's ecosystem for the future.

 

[Gibsense]

What is being missed is that "AI" is not some self-sustaining psuedo-living being at this point. It is the creation of all of those "experts" and billionaire industrialists whom Gibsense seems to despise. So, it is not more likely to "liberate" humans than to take control for the "masters" who created it and chose how to train it.

Nonsense. I despise no one. Especially not those creating AI. "at this point" Unclear says. Why of course, I am anticipating the continuing success of billionaire industrialists and hope they succeed. I just suggest a look further. More, I am anticipating success even to the point of what is feared: A living program

Lol, perhaps I should explain. My working life has been in an environment of business. In that environment, everybody, more or less accepted the principle that human motivation was based on 2 factors:

• Greed
• Fear

and that, where possible you should use other people's money to obtain profit. So, with this as a background, one tends to get a bit cynical. Forgive.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

Nonsense. I despise noone

Your quote below is what I was reacting to:

For experts read 'Potential manipulators, exploiters, war engines, etc'. they fear loss of control but it is inevitable

Whatever, it still stands that the people developing AI are doing so for their own benefit, and that it can be used by them for all sorts of malevolent purposes, if they, or their successors, so desire. AI is not a self-correcting pseudo life form that "knows better" than its creators or subsequent users.

 

[Gibsense]

But, even if, somehow, AI becomes a new pseudo-species that self-replicates and evolves, we need to remember that it is not something that evolved over the history of our planet and is adequately adapted to it to avoid damaging it, even to the point of extinguishing life on it, including its own pseudo life. Ai is not ever going to be "all knowing" and may have the same human fault of assuming it is more intelligent than it really is.

And, as for training it to be "moral", humans even have a hard time deciding what is moral and what is not. What an AI collective could evolve the meaning to be is not at all evident. It depends on the priorities adopted. For social animals like humans (and, yes, wolves, too), there is a clash between the short-term benefits of being selfish and the longer-term benefits of being constructive to the social order. We do have some recognition that, without the social order, we would be far worse off. That is ingrained by evolution into the emotional responses of humans and other social animals. We call it things like "empathy" and "duty". But, we really don't have a solid underlying logic that can be programmed to embed that in a machine. So, there really is no good way of predicting what a pseudo-society of AI machines would evolve to without continuous human "training".

And, unless it all evolves in exactly the same way at the same time, it is likely that it would divide into separate factions that would likely compete for the resources that are important to its survival and maybe to its chose goals. It could end up with warring AI factions, just like other social animals have done since before humans started recording history.

So, I think it is far too soon to start thinking of AI as a panacea for humanity's problems, or for that matter, as a replacement for humanity that would avoid any of our problems for itself or the rest of Earth's ecosystem for the future.

Absolutely agree with the above statement except for the implication of pseudo-life and pseudo-species. Itb will become real life and a real species imo

Whatever, it still stands that the people developing AI are doing so for their own benefit, and that it can be used by them for all sorts of malevolent purposes, if they, or their successors, so desire. AI is not a self-correcting pseudo life form that "knows better" than its creators or subsequent users.

Ah, yes I take your point it is a one sided comment, apologies

 

[Gibsense]

Unclear, please check my post edits

 

[whoknows]

It depends on whether you believe in magic. Many otherwise sane logical people seem to attribute magic to human beings; our intelligence. That is to say deep down without even realising it, they believe we are unique and set aside from physics and logic. They deny the possibility of machine intelligence and/or machine life.

I would suggest that intelligence and possibly the label 'life' are just step changes as part of a continuum from a beach pebble to a human. The next step change is an evolutionary step to a more advanced AI. But I suppose most people prefer Magic in some collective delusion. Take the idea of a soul; well yes maybe we have a soul (and maybe not) but many would take refuge in the idea that AI could never have a soul, er, why? "Oh they cannot have magic like what we do". and then they say they are not religious.

Then there is fear. Fear of losing our crown. Fear of losing our status of Apex Predator. Some here have already expressed a sense of relief that the batton may be passed to a more sensible entity that can be considered sane.

The controlling motivation would need to be morality. What though is morality? A framework of guidance perhaps based on the logic of survival in a competitive environment? I would suggest morality is embedded in a logical process. An ideal concept for AI; more reliable than the injection of dopamine and hormones - almost a logical outcome of self-programming. So, fear not, justice may prevail, oh, er

So what is to become of us. Are we irrelevant? Of course not; most things have their uses. Take dogs for example - how wolves adapted . But most are happy, I think, depending on the breed: how the DNA has been manipulated to suit various tasks and environments. You just have to hope your master is nice, lol.

"It depends on whether you believe in magic."

Straw man arguments.

There is no continuum from a pebble to us, a pebble used to be a rock, which used to be etc...., alongside other processes over hundreds of millions of years which provided the platform for life to emerge.

Not magic - evolution! - a complex interwoven fabric that you magically believe AI can gatecrash.

Even if it could, how could a morality, such as greed and fear, outlive its host, in competition with one that was mutually beneficial?.

Looks like we have a test of that playing out now, (on the broader stage).

 

[Gibsense]

"It depends on whether you believe in magic."

Straw man arguments.

That's my point, lol
We are what we are as a consequence of evolution and luck (random stuff). The idea that we amount to something more due to some unknown magic is unnecessary. That we have a special something that evolution has not provided amounts to a belief in Magic—unless you can demonstrate the 'extra something' separate from evolution. That some unknown entity sprinkles magic stuff on dolphins and dogs in various quantities. Give me strength. If this is the case then the magic involved applies to the whole universe, maybe.

A pebble knows it is a pebble (but only to the extent that it has such a capability) and acts like a pebble. A table is a bit more complex but doesn't know much (lol). Lol simple life though is much more complex. The predators hunting in your bloodstream for example. What do they know? Do they receive a reward of sorts for eating bacteria?

And, all these cells follow instructions built by evolution all adding up to something greater than their parts e.g. you.
And the revolutionaries - cancer cells deluded into expecting to find their own way forward. But yes - another step change - from a linear progression to a much more complex organisation which is now being replicated in AI (not there yet but on the way). All unavoidable. Just evolution. NB For Neurons read Transistors

 

[Gibsense]

Looks like we have a test of that playing out now

Yes, sure.

Nature (evolution) is incredibly automatic. One extreme results in a counter-extreme bounce chugging along throwing all the balls up in the air. The process can cause disaster or it can enable another evolutionary step linking separate parts into a new whole where all the bits add to something extra. Like magic

 

[Gibsense]

Even if it could, how could a morality, such as greed and fear, outlive its host, in competion with one that was mutually beneficial.

These characteristics are not mutually exclusive. Greed and fear are great motivators assisting evolution. And, single cells joining in mutual defence, greed and fear is why we are here. An inevitable process. The magic is that there is actually anything at all and it applies to all things, maybe.

Evolution has its dead ends. Lots of them. Like cells joining to create an organism, people joining to create a country has not worked too well so far - loads of dead civilisations. It is still trying (maybe it has succeeded to take the next step in the past but we have not acknowledged the signs). Maybe AI is just an integrated means to achieve that next step up. Maybe

But it doesn't end there. The competition will continue. Maybe

 

[Gibsense]

I suggest we stick to science and not science fiction for now.

Ok, we need to bear in mind also that much of science (at the edge) in history has turned out to be fiction. Like a blind man stumbling through his new house thought he was in the kitchen but then discovered the toilet.

 

[whoknows]

That's my point, lol
We are what we are as a consequence of evolution and luck (random stuff). The idea that we amount to something more due to some unknown magic is unnecessary. That we have a special something that evolution has not provided amounts to a belief in Magic—unless you can demonstrate the 'extra something' separate from evolution. That some unknown entity sprinkles magic stuff on dolphins and dogs in various quantities. Give me strength. If this is the case then the magic involved applies to the whole universe, maybe.

A pebble knows it is a pebble (but only to the extent that it has such a capability) and acts like a pebble. A table is a bit more complex but doesn't know much (lol). Lol simple life though is much more complex. The predators hunting in your bloodstream for example. What do they know? Do they receive a reward of sorts for eating bacteria?

And, all these cells follow instructions built by evolution all adding up to something greater than their parts e.g. you.
And the revolutionaries - cancer cells deluded into expecting to find their own way forward. But yes - another step change - from a linear progression to a much more complex organisation which is now being replicated in AI (not there yet but on the way). All unavoidable. Just evolution. NB For Neurons read Transistors

" The idea that we amount to something more due to some unknown magic is unnecessary. That we have a special something that evolution has not provided amounts to a belief in Magic—unless you can demonstrate the 'extra something' separate from evolution. That some unknown entity sprinkles magic stuff on dolphins and dogs in various quantities. Give me strength. If this is the case then the magic involved applies to the whole universe, maybe."

Another straw man argument - why are you even going there?

"We are what we are as a consequence of evolution and luck (random stuff)."

Where does "luck" (random stuff) come into it when we can't, unassisted, fathom 10 to the power 44 chess permutations?

"A pebble knows it is a pebble (but only to the extent that it has such a capability) and acts like a pebble. A table is a bit more complex but doesn't know much (lol)"

What capacity does a pebble have to know itself more than that of a table?

"Evolution has its dead ends."

 

[Classical Motion]

I think life is far to interdependent and cyclic to evolve from one form. For me it had to be laid down like a blanket. It’s a matrix only. Not singular.

I think our fossils prove that life does not evolve. But I always seem to see things backwards with most folks.

 

[Gibsense]

" The idea that we amount to something more due to some unknown magic is unnecessary. That we have a special something that evolution has not provided amounts to a belief in Magic—unless you can demonstrate the 'extra something' separate from evolution. That some unknown entity sprinkles magic stuff on dolphins and dogs in various quantities. Give me strength. If this is the case then the magic involved applies to the whole universe, maybe."

Another straw man argument - why are you even going there?

"We are what we are as a consequence of evolution and luck (random stuff)."

Where does "luck" (random stuff) come into it when we can't, unassisted, fathom 10 to the power 44 chess permutations?

"A pebble knows it is a pebble (but only to the extent that it has such a capability) and acts like a pebble. A table is a bit more complex but doesn't know much (lol)"

What capacity does a pebble have to know itself more than that of a table?

"Evolution has its dead ends."

Hi whoknows. I am non-plussed that you should continue to misunderstand. You say "another straw man argument". Well sure. As you keep saying, it is evolution. However I keep adding 'randomness', you know butterfly wings and all that. (or maybe you don't). I introduce the straw man 'Magic' in anticipation of someone having the notion of intervention by the supernatural. To dismiss any such idea as unnecessary and irrelevant. If an intervention were to occur IMO it would not be magic but something we had ignored. I hope that suffices. If not, enjoy your thoughts!!

 

[whoknows]

Hi whoknows. I am non-plussed that you should continue to misunderstand. You say "another straw man argument". Well sure. As you keep saying, it is evolution. However I keep adding 'randomness', you know butterfly wings and all that. (or maybe you don't). I introduce the straw man 'Magic' in anticipation of someone having the notion of intervention by the supernatural. To dismiss any such idea as unnecessary and irrelevant. If an intervention were to occur IMO it would not be magic but something we had ignored. I hope that suffices. If not, enjoy your thoughts!!

"I hope that suffices. If not, enjoy your thoughts!!"

Not at all. Anyway I'll leave you to your thoughts.