Air generator(s) for Mars?

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majornature

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I just wanted to know is it possible that NASA building an air genrator to send to Mars for future missions that will help humans breath while on a Mars mission for a long period of time?<br /><br />I haven't heard about it in a while... so I just was curious about it... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#14ea50"><strong><font size="1">We are born.  We live.  We experiment.  We rot.  We die.  and the whole process starts all over again!  Imagine That!</font><br /><br /><br /><img id="6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264" style="width:176px;height:247px" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/4/6e5c6b4c-0657-47dd-9476-1fbb47938264.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" width="276" height="440" /><br /></strong></font> </div>
 
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nexium

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Nasa is still in the research phase for the Mars trip, so subassemblies are not being built, but prototypes of oxygen generators are under construction and some are being tested. Generator likely is the wrong word as oxygen must be made out of something that contains oxygen such as water, rock, or carbon dioxide. I think the air in the space shuttle is about 30% oxygen at about 10 psi = pounds per square inch. Other mixtures are equally usable as long as the oxygen partial pressure is about 3 psi. Neil
 
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ortemus74

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By applying a simple electrical current through a metamaterial called 'yttria stabilized zirconia' one could take the CO2 from the backround Martian atmosphere and turn it into oxygen TO BREATHE.<br /><br />Matthew Trovato
 
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craig42

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Take a few air tight transparant tanks with two attachments for gas flow, fill with H2O and the amazingly useful self-replicating gas exchange device also known as algae. Fill with Martian CO2, seal, then later relase O2 into habitat, and repeat occasinally removing dead matter for the Ag areas to compost <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> Possible?
 
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ortemus74

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Craig42, <br /><br />Forget the oxygen producing organisms - <br />what happens if they started to die? Your screwed...<br /><br />With 'yttria stabilized zirconia' you can produce <br />oxygen without plant life. <br /><br />I know people understand that to make manned <br />martian missions' possible we need to lighten the <br />traditional NASA space suits which are way to bulky <br />for Mars which is 0.38 Earth Gravity. <br /><br />Again, 'yttria stabilized zirconia' can serve as <br />new STANDARD for oxygen production and lighter <br />space suits.
 
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bobvanx

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I'd be interested to know if using yttria stabilized zirconia requires less power than electrolyzing H20 per unit of breathable O2.
 
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MBA_UIU

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From what I have read yttria stabilized zirconia is in ceramic form correct? If so how do you prevent it from forming crystals in the lungs? It is my understanding that at present we do not have filters that can withstand ceramic composites for any great length of time. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#0000ff"><br /><br /> <br /><img id="268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a" src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/8/268587ce-7170-4b41-a87b-8cd443f9351a.Large.jpg" alt="blog post photo" /><br /></font></strong></p> </div>
 
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scottb50

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The big question here is: If? Even if there is a large supply can it be tapped?<br /><br />At least in the initial stage, the easiest means would be bringing water from Earth. Break it down with solar power, simple and nearly fool proof, most everybody has done it in high school chemistry with a 9V battery. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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jatslo

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nexium said: "<font color="yellow">Other mixtures are equally usable</font>; quote, and unquote.<br /><br />I heard that a mix of hydrogen sulfide is best for medicinal reasons that involve hibernation theorems. Try searching Yahoo! News for hydrogen hibernation…<br /><br /><br />
 
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mrmorris

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<font color="yellow">" heard that a mix of hydrogen..."</font><br /><br />Yeah. Hydrogen is good for everything -- especially metallic hydrogen.<br /><br />Um... generally the gas that gets mixed in an oxygen atmosphere for breathing purposes is a non-volatile one though... Nitrogen or Helium being the two most common ones. Mixing Hydrogen and Oxygen in the atmosphere that the astronauts will be working in is ill-advised.
 
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jatslo

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The following is the article that I was thinking of; however, it is "Hydrogen Sulfide" and not "Hydrogen", so I stand corrected. I am thinking that smaller doses might slow cell degeneration; cell degeneration that is an effect of hostile environments, which may make it possible for space workers to remain outside of Earth's environment for longer periods.<br /><br /><font color="orange">Already there are companies that will gladly freeze the dead in hopes some way of curing and reviving them might develop in the future. The field is called cryonics. So far, no one has been brought back.<br /><br />The trick with the mice didn't require freezing. Instead, the rodents <font color="white"><b>breathed air laced with hydrogen sulfide</b></font> a chemical produced naturally in the bodies of humans and other animals. Within minutes, they stopped moving and soon their cell functions approached total inactivity.<br /><br />Humans use hydrogen sulfide to "buffer our metabolic flexibility," Roth explained. "It's what allows our core temperature to stay at 98.6 degrees, regardless of whether we're in Alaska or Tahiti."<br /><br />In extreme doses, the hydrogen sulfide is thought to bind to cells in place of oxygen. The organism's metabolism shuts down. Upon breathing normal air again, the mice "quickly regained normal function and metabolic activity with no long-term negative effects," the researchers report. They plan to test the technique on larger mammals next ( REFERENCE ).</font> <br /><br /><br />mrmorris said: "<font color="yellow">Yeah. Hydrogen is good for everything -- especially metallic hydrogen. <br /><br />Um... generally the gas that gets mixed in an oxygen atmosphere for breathing purposes is a non-volatile one though... Nitrogen or Helium being the two most common ones. Mixing Hydrogen and Oxygen in the atmosphere that the astronauts will be working in is ill</font>
 
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jatslo

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Does anyone here have the expertise in the following matter of “Hydrogen Sulfide”? I am interested in opening deliberations on the subject, and I am prepared to debate as well, so bring it on SDC minions.<br /><br />The following is the article that I was thinking of; however, it is "Hydrogen Sulfide" and not "Hydrogen", so I stand corrected. I am thinking that smaller doses might slow cell degeneration; cell degeneration that is an effect of hostile environments, which may make it possible for space workers to remain outside of Earth's environment for longer periods.<br /><br /><font color="orange">Already there are companies that will gladly freeze the dead in hopes some way of curing and reviving them might develop in the future. The field is called cryonics. So far, no one has been brought back.<br /><br />The trick with the mice didn't require freezing. Instead, the rodents <font color="white"><b>breathed air laced with hydrogen sulfide</b></font> a chemical produced naturally in the bodies of humans and other animals. Within minutes, they stopped moving and soon their cell functions approached total inactivity.<br /><br />Humans use hydrogen sulfide to "buffer our metabolic flexibility," Roth explained. "It's what allows our core temperature to stay at 98.6 degrees, regardless of whether we're in Alaska or Tahiti."<br /><br />In extreme doses, the hydrogen sulfide is thought to bind to cells in place of oxygen. The organism's metabolism shuts down. Upon breathing normal air again, the mice "quickly regained normal function and metabolic activity with no long-term negative effects," the researchers report. They plan to test the technique on larger mammals next ( REFERENCE ).</font> <br /><br /><br />mrmorris said: "<font color="yellow">Yeah. Hydrogen is good for everything -- especially metallic hydrogen. <br /><br />Um... generally the gas that gets mixed in an</font>
 
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chriscdc

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The body has effectively 2 working metabolisms. One is the normal oxygen burning metabolisms. The second is no oxygen burning at all, however in this state you are essentially in extreme hibernation and the life expectation is currently unknown. The main problem is getting from one to another. You actively have to expel oxygen from the cells or they will use the normal metabolism and cause massive damage to the cell.<br />In fact only adding a small amount of hydrogen sulfide would put cells in the lethal middle zone.<br /><br />There have been experiments were they rapidly removed all the blood out of a dog and replaced it with saline at around 7 degrees C. The dog was kept in this state for around 8 hours before having the blood put back in. Apparently there was no long term damage.<br /><br />Back on topic. One way to get oxygen for a habitat would be to use geothermal energy. You mine the water/CO2 ice and put it down a deep hole. Then you could get the various molecules that you need via centrifuge. Don't know how effective this would be for getting oxygen, as it depends on how much O2 is trapped in the ice.
 
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jatslo

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Jatslo’s Response to chriscdc in this Post:<br /><br />The following is the article that I was thinking of; however, it is "Hydrogen Sulfide" and not "Hydrogen", so I stand corrected. I am thinking that smaller doses might slow cell degeneration; cell degeneration that is an effect of hostile environments, which may make it possible for space workers to remain outside of Earth's environment for longer periods.<br /><br /><font color="white"><b>Jatslo’s Evidence:</b></font><br /><br /><font color="orange">Already there are companies that will gladly freeze the dead in hopes some way of curing and reviving them might develop in the future. The field is called cryonics. So far, no one has been brought back. The trick with the mice didn't require freezing. Instead, the rodents <font color="white"><b>breathed air laced with hydrogen sulfide</b></font> a chemical produced naturally in the bodies of humans and other animals. Within minutes, they stopped moving and soon their cell functions approached total inactivity.<br /><br />Humans use hydrogen sulfide to "buffer our metabolic flexibility," Roth explained. "It's what allows our core temperature to stay at 98.6 degrees, regardless of whether we're in Alaska or Tahiti." In extreme doses, the hydrogen sulfide is thought to bind to cells in place of oxygen. The organism's metabolism shuts down. Upon breathing normal air again, the mice "quickly regained normal function and metabolic activity with no long-term negative effects," the researchers report. They plan to test the technique on larger mammals next ( REFERENCE ).</font> <br /><br />mrmorris said, "<font color="yellow">Yeah. Hydrogen is good for everything -- especially metallic hydrogen. <br /><br />Um... generally the gas that gets mixed in an oxygen atmosphere for breathing purposes is a non-volatile one though... Nitrogen or Helium being the two most</font>
 
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chriscdc

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Whoa you refer to yourself in the third person.<br /><br />The point I was trying to make was that for hydrogen sulphide to have any increased effect (apart from lethal) the concentration needs to be high enough to stop the normal system from working.<br /><br />There was an article on this in Scientific American a few months back.<br /><br />The point about being off topic was that it did not contribute to the thread about generating a breathable atmosphere on mars. It could be useful for suspended animation on a trip to mars however.
 
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jatslo

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Jatslo’s response to chriscdc:<br /><br />The following is the article that I was thinking of; however, it is "Hydrogen Sulfide" and not "Hydrogen", so I stand corrected. I am thinking that smaller doses might slow cell degeneration; cell degeneration that is an effect of hostile environments, which may make it possible for space workers to remain outside of Earth's environment for longer periods.<br /><br /><font color="white"><b>Jatslo’s Evidence:</b></font><br /><br /><font color="orange">Already there are companies that will gladly freeze the dead in hopes some way of curing and reviving them might develop in the future. The field is called cryonics. So far, no one has been brought back. The trick with the mice didn't require freezing. Instead, the rodents <font color="white"><b>breathed air laced with hydrogen sulfide</b></font> a chemical produced naturally in the bodies of humans and other animals. Within minutes, they stopped moving and soon their cell functions approached total inactivity.<br /><br />Humans use hydrogen sulfide to "buffer our metabolic flexibility," Roth explained. "It's what allows our core temperature to stay at 98.6 degrees, regardless of whether we're in Alaska or Tahiti." In extreme doses, the hydrogen sulfide is thought to bind to cells in place of oxygen. The organism's metabolism shuts down. Upon breathing normal air again, the mice "quickly regained normal function and metabolic activity with no long-term negative effects," the researchers report. They plan to test the technique on larger mammals next ( REFERENCE ).</font> <br /><br />mrmorris said, "<font color="yellow">Yeah. Hydrogen is good for everything -- especially metallic hydrogen. <br /><br />Um... generally the gas that gets mixed in an oxygen atmosphere for breathing purposes is a non-volatile one though... Nitrogen or Helium being the two most common ones.</font>
 
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chriscdc

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There wouldn't be any advantage to spending 8 hours in hibernation. First hibernation is not just sleeping whilst consuming less oxygen. If you could hibernate instead of normal sleep why don't animals do this anyway?<br /><br />Sleeping allows you to repair the damage done during the day. Hibernating allows you to repair the damage done whilst you are not really doing anything. 8 hours of hibernating will not do anything to repair the damage caused during the day. You'll probably feel worse than you did before you went into hibernation.<br /><br />Did you really have to copy and paste the majority of wikipedias entry on hydrogen sulphide when a link would have been enough?<br /><br />Also we already know quite a bit about what atmospheres are needed to breath. We seem to have got it right when we sent nuclear subs on cruises underneath the artic ice or on the ISS.<br />Could you give us any links for this 1 year of analysis?
 
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jatslo

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<font color="yellow">There wouldn't be any advantage to spending 8 hours in hibernation. First hibernation is not just sleeping whilst consuming less oxygen. If you could hibernate instead of normal sleep why don't animals do this anyway?</font><br /><br />Energy conservation. Hibernation is sleep.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Sleeping allows you to repair the damage done during the day. Hibernating allows you to repair the damage done whilst you are not really doing anything. 8 hours of hibernating will not do anything to repair the damage caused during the day. You'll probably feel worse than you did before you went into hibernation. </font><br /><br />Hibernation is energy conservation sleep.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Did you really have to copy and paste the majority of wikipedias entry on hydrogen sulphide when a link would have been enough?</font><br /><br />Actually, I have that in a Microsoft Word document, because I am planning on possibly submitting my research as homework when given the opportunity to go free style. All the links are available for me to ping as I write, etc.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Also we already know quite a bit about what atmospheres are needed to breath. We seem to have got it right when we sent nuclear subs on cruises underneath the artic ice or on the ISS.</font><br /><br />Well a trip to Mars is a lot different than traveling in a sub; hibernation should be given some heavy looks, I think.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Could you give us any links for this 1 year of analysis?</font><br /><br />I do not publish my work. Sometimes I will throw of few pages at someone to get a response, similar to what I did in this thread.
 
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jatslo

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<font color="yellow">Not a bad idea, except that I suspect that induced hibernation would require a period of recuperation each time you came out of it.</font><br /><br />The longer trip to Mars is going to have gravitational repercussions anyway. The hybernation will conserve energy, so that the crew won't have to pack energy. Think about how much food a crew of seven is going to consume in one year, then factor hibernation in, and recalulate, and you would be surprised.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">So what you would get is 12 hours of work, 8 hours of hibernation, and four hours of recovery; <br />probably not efficient after all.</font><br /><br />8-hours in hibernation would not require recovery; once the o2 is initiated the subject snaps awake. Hibernation is sleep, except less energy is burned, and less energy is required.
 
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jatslo

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<b>Jatslo's Evidence and Commentary:</b><br /><br /><b>Atmosphere in General:</b> <br /><br />The encyclopedia says, "<font color="orange">[Gr.,=sphere of air], the mixture of gases surrounding a celestial body with sufficient gravity to maintain it. Although some details about the atmospheres of other planets and satellites are known, only the earth's atmosphere has been well studied, the science of which is called "Meteorology" ( REF# ). Related: Atmosphere information.</font><br /><br />Jatslo said, "Humanity should be able to successfully harness the power of "<font color="orange">The mixture of gases surrounding a celestial body with sufficient gravity</font> to maintain there presence indefinitely, and this is particularly true with Mars. In terms of "Earth Like" Mars is the closest known body of mass resembles Earth. Mars and Earth share multitudes of characteristics.<br /><br /><b>Seasonal Change Similarities, e.g. (Earth and Mars):</b><br /><br />The encyclopedia says, "<font color="orange">Because the axis of rotation is tilted about 25° to the plane of revolution, Mars experiences seasons somewhat similar to those of the Earth. One of the most apparent seasonal changes is the growing or shrinking of white areas near the poles known as polar caps. These polar caps may be composed of ordinary ice or of dry ice (frozen carbon dioxide) and are thought to be only a few inches thick. During the Martian summer the polar cap in that hemisphere shrinks and the dark regions grow darker; in winter the polar cap grows again and the dark regions become paler ( REF# ).</font><br /><br />Jatsl
 
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chriscdc

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I strongly suggest that you look up the meaning of hibernation. The very fact that the metabolism slows down, means that damage caused during the day can not be repaired. Sleep is more complex than just saving energy.<br />For example when you use your muscles, you cause microscopic rips in the tissue. During sleep the muscles repair themselves. Repairing the tissue requires alot of energy. With the lower metabolism you do not have that energy and so cannot repair themselves. Even in zero G you will feel like hell after a few days.<br /><br />Hibernation could be used for the trips to and from mars, but that is not what you indicated in your original post. The thread is also about how to extract a breathable atmosphere from the martian environment.<br /><br />Also I would suggest that you do not take wikipedia as your source material for any official use. Useful as it is, it is inherently not reliable.
 
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jatslo

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chriscdc said, "<font color="yellow">do not take wikipedia as your source</font><br /><br />Jatslo said, "You are the second person to state that, so I changed encyclopedia sources to Encyclopedia.com, and besides, I am just trying to get a feel for "Proximity" not facts, so in a general sense, I am satisfied. I am just assessing the situation, so to speak. BTW, my main motivation for hibernation involves energy conservation, and material and equipment resources involved are byproducts of atmospheric analysis. I didn’t see any atmospheric analysis in this thread, so I took the opportunity to contribute.”
 
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jatslo

Guest
chriscdc said, "<font color="yellow">I strongly suggest that you look up the meaning of hibernation. The very fact that the metabolism slows down, means that damage caused during the day can not be repaired. Sleep is more complex than just saving energy. For example when you use your muscles, you cause microscopic rips in the tissue. During sleep the muscles repair themselves. Repairing the tissue requires alot of energy. With the lower metabolism you do not have that energy and so cannot repair themselves. Even in zero G you will feel like hell after a few days. Hibernation could be used for the trips to and from mars, but that is not what you indicated in your original post. The thread is also about how to extract a breathable atmosphere from the martian environment. Also I would suggest that you do not take wikipedia as your source material for any official use. Useful as it is, it is inherently not reliable.</font><br /><br />Jatslo said, "<font face="verdana" color="#99FFFF" size="3">The amount of sleep and hibernation needed depends on both the individual and the environment. For instance, Mars is far, far away and absent of nourishing fuel that a crew of seven will require, and the time spent getting their is chalk full of all kinds of biohazards. Effective hibernation will offer protection from cold when normal body temperature cannot be maintained and food is scarce. Growth and repair of cellular non-essentials in terms of biology during hibernation, and all body activities are reduced to a minimum: there may be as few as one or two heartbeats a minute. This by no way means that the body cannot repair itself similarily the way sleep does.</font>"<br /><br /><b>SLEEP:</b><br /><br />The encyclopedia said, "<font face="verdana" color="#99FF00" size="3">Resting state in which an individual becomes relatively quiescent and relatively unaware of the environment. During sleep, which is in part a period of rest and relaxation, most physiological funct</font>
 
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jatslo

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chriscdc said, "<font color="yellow">The thread is also about how to extract a breathable atmosphere from the martian environment</font>"<br /><br />Jatslo said, "<font face="verdana" color="#99FFFF" size="3">I am talking about breathable atmosphere, and extracting it is simple; what I am trying to do is reduce the amount of breathable atmosphere requirements, so that we can spend less time and resources on extraction. Clearly, there is plenty of Co2; 95%; convert it to energy, and atmosphere. What is so hard about that? The hard part is energy conservation, because otherwise we will be burning far more than we can make.</font>"
 
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