Airborne Pain Ray

[zavvy]

<b>Airborne Pain Ray</b><br /><br />LINK<br /><br />It was only a matter of time, I guess. First, the Air Force builds a real-life, microwave-like pain ray. Then, it gets a company to strap that real-life, microwave-like pain ray to the back of a jet. <br /><br />For years, the Air Force Research Laboratory (AFRL) has been working on a millimeter-wave beam that penetrates a 64th of an inch beneath the skin. That causes the water molecules there to bubble. And that hurts like hell; people tend to run -- fast -- in the other direction. Small wonder, then, that non-lethal weapons experts call this "Active Denial System" the "holy grail of crowd control."<br /><br />Active Denial has been tested on people a bunch of times. A Humvee-mounted prototype is about to start undergoing trials. And now, Active Denial is going airborne.<br /><br />AFRL handed Palo Alto's Communications & Power Industries a four year, $7 million contract, according to the Hilltop Times -- the in-house paper of Hill Air Force Base.<br /><br /><br />Dr. Diana Loree, the project officer for Active Denial, said four AFRL directorates are involved in developing this airborne capability: directed energy here; propulsion and vehicles at Wright Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio; and human effectiveness at Brooks City-Base, Texas. <br /><br />Experts from directed energy, as the lead directorate, focuses on the systems engineering and radiating system development, she said. Propulsion directorate experts focus on the airborne power generation and conditioning required for the radiating system. Vehicles directorate scientists and engineers put their efforts toward Active Denial's thermal management and aircraft integration issues while human effectiveness experts focus on biological effects research. <br /><br />

 

[Grok]

Cool! I used to live on Wright Patterson AFB. Imagine this in battle. You could direct the enemy to where you want them and force them to lay down their weapons. I would think you would like that idea.

 

[chuchurokit]

i saw a show on it. it looked pretty cool. the host of it got up in front of it and took a "hit" he didnt last long

 

[grooble]

Only a matter of time till some psycho chains a guy to a wall and uses it on him for hours.

 

[Grok]

I think you just came up with the perfect torture for OBL.

 

[zavvy]

Hi grok....<br /><br /><font color="yellow">I would think you would like that idea.</font><br /><br />I suppose it all depends on the intentions of the people who would use such a weapon. Psy Ops seems to be the most efficient and successful MO right now... <br /><br />Goebbels would be proud... <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />

 

[Grok]

zavvy,<br /><br />I have to admit I'm not to happy about the possibilities of this being used on peaceful demonstrations. We would need laws to ensure that these devices are never turned against the American population. I do think they would be useful in our current war. Instead of bombing people into oblivion we simply turn this thing on and get them to come out of hiding. Then we give them the chance to give up without huge damage to the infrastructure. Of course the first time this is used on one of our troops, there will be hell to pay. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[CalliArcale]

Yes, it's important to be aware of the dividing line between non-lethal weapons and torture devices. The same weapon can easily be both, and not just this particular one. It would be an important and valuable test of a system to see if it knows the difference and acts accordingly -- using the weapon only as a substitute for lethal weapons, and turning it off before it becomes a torture device.<br /><br />One other caveat, of course, is that there really isn't such a thing as a totally non-lethal weapon. It is possible that someone could die when targeted with this weapon, even if it's working entirely normally, perhaps if they have a very weak system with dangerously high blood pressure and are so terrified they have a heart attack. It would be rare, but those using it need to be aware of the fact so they do not use it indiscriminately and only use it where absolutely neccesary. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[nexium]

Repeated exposure likely causes cateracts, skin rashes, skin infections and other long lasting problems. Neil

 

[thechemist]

grok,<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Instead of bombing people into oblivion we simply turn this thing on and get them to come out of hiding.</font><br /><br />I don't think this would be useful in such a case, since building walls will provide enough protection. This would be perfect for street demonstrators though.<br />Hey, maybe even we will see medieval metal armour suits coming in fashion again <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>I feel better than James Brown.</em> </div>

 

[silylene old]

It would be simple to design clothing to be a barrier to microwaves at this intensity. One could weave metal fibers into the cloth. Similarly, certain metallized lotions might act as effective barriers to the pain ray.<br /><br />This microwave beam would be so easy to defeat I really doubt it is worth the expense to develop as a military weapon.<br /><br />As a crowd riot control weapon, I think the lawsuits would pile up the first time someone with a pacemaker dies. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[Grok]

chemist,<br /><br />No problem. Just send in a robot to fetch them. <br /><br />Armour suits? Bomb 'em for being difficult. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[Grok]

silylene,<br /><br />I see what you mean, but maybe it would just be an option in the arsenal. If it doesn't work, then you turn on the traditional water cannon and tear gas and maybe a concussion grenade or two. If that don't work, unleash the hounds and police with batons. If that don't work, rubber bullets.

 

[Grok]

calli,<br /><br />Yeah, but we can still use it to torture OBL, right? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[bobvanx]

The Oakland police caught hell for firing wooden dowel pellets on the peaceful demonstration at the port, a couple years back.<br /><br />A pain-ray would have similar repercussions.

 

[silylene old]

Last month, the Boston police fired pepper-filled paint balls into an overexuberant crowd after the Red Sox beat the Yankees.<br /><br />One girl bystander, a BU student, was killed when a cop's paintball shot her throught the eye.<br /><br />Another student, who was climbing some girders on the backside of the stadium was shot 13 times. One shot penetrated his skull, and he had to have surgery to remove paintball fragments through his forehead.<br /><br />Another student was shot approximately 20 times, also for climbing girders. One shot penetrated through both of his cheeks, requiring extensive plastic surgery.<br /><br />Yep, "non-lethal" weapons. What a crock. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[Grok]

silylene,<br /><br />It's a shame about the young woman being killed and the others hurt. However, I have to wonder why people act like animals when their local sports team wins. They think its a free pass to rip up their city. I remember when Dallas won the Super Bowl in '92. A bunch of idiots in the crowd just started wailing on each other. Pretty soon we had a riot with dozens hurt. For what? For a stupid football game. Why can't people just enjoy themselves anymore? What's wrong with our society? I think the police have to restore order somehow. I would much rather they use a high tech solution like this than the low tech paintball solution.

 

[Grok]

Oh I hope we get OBL alive and I hope they videotape the torture. They should skin him alive while having a doctor standby to ensure he's conscious throughout the procedure. Then throw rubbing alcohol on him. Then hang him by his finger nails and toe nails. Then put him on the rack. Then let family members from 9/11 take potshots at him for several hours with bb guns. Then the chinese water torture, bamboo shoots, solitary confinement in a sensory deprivation chamber, then sleep deprivation to round things out. Then we should put him on trial and decide what his punishment should be.

 

[bobvanx]

D-uuude!

 

[thechemist]

Hey, all these from someone who is opposed to terrorism ?<br />grok, I don't get it , you are against the axis of evil, you sound like part of it by saying all these gross things. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>I feel better than James Brown.</em> </div>

 

[silylene old]

Grok,<br /><br />History seems to show that police will over-react to chaotic crowd situations nearly every time.<br /><br />I cannot fathom whatsoever to understand why they thought firing dozens of paintballs at college kids climbing girders 20' high was a good idea. Was the goal to make them fall and break their backs? Was the goal to fire paint balls through their foreheads and cheeks? Just what in the world was the goal?<br /><br />And why did cops get so overcome with aggression that they fired paint balls into the faces of bystanders watching the idiots climbing the girders? So they could kill them by shooting them in the eye?<br /><br />Unfortunately, over the course of my years here, I have observed that everytime you give cops new toys, they will abuse them and hurt/kill people. So the last thing they need is another "pain" toy. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[Grok]

Chemist,<br /><br />I'm willing to be evil if it means we get to torture OBL. You can't possibly think the man deserves some type of humanitarian treatment?

 

[Grok]

steve,<br /><br />As an atheist, I have to hope OBL gets his here and now. I can't count on hell to do the job.

 

[Grok]

silylene,<br /><br />I don't know. A chaotic crowd can do a lot of damage. There has been plenty of killing and looting by crowds gone mad. I think the police fear huge unruly crowds, and do you blame them? If you were one of 1,000 cops facing a couple hundred thousand crazy people you might get a little overzealous. I'm not saying what they did was right, but I can understand the tendency to overreact.

 

[mcbethcg]

Radiation declines by the inverse square law due to spreading. I.E, light from a light bulb is 4 times as weak at twice the distance because the light is now striking 4 times the area.<br /><br />But lasers and masers do not necessarily spread much over distance, depending on the quality of the emiter.<br /><br />The people designing the system are aware of basic physics, I am sure.