Question Alien Visitors! Would they be friendly, hostile, or only stealthy observers?!

[dfjchem721]

We have all read or heard about aliens abducting people, and doing all sorts of wild and crazy things! But no one has really verified these claims, or at least most of us don't think so. And of course reports of UFOs abound. I see them every night. They all have flashing lights (the ones I can see), but I certainly cannot identify them. Who knows what they are, or where they came from?

But if real aliens do visit Earth, many think they will come and take all our water and air, and either eat us, enslave us, or just leave all of us to perish.

Others believe they will want to have a chat and exchange ideas. And still others believe they will just quietly watch what we are doing, taking notes.

What do you think?

 

[Wolfshadw]

I still think we're nothing more than some alien child's game. Think Sim City, but on a solar scale (or larger). Ok. Not really, but it is possible. Honestly, I think that any civilization that has evolved enough to transit between stars (and galaxies) would be doing what we do without own ancient past. Look at it. Study it. Try to learn why they became what they did.

-Wolf sends

 

[dfjchem721]

Germany was, by far, the most advanced scientific and technical "culture" in the entire world before the NSDAP took over in 1933. And we all know what happened with them.

Admittedly, they did not travel between the stars, but Intelligence clearly is not the only aspect by which a visiting alien's behavior might be considered.

 

[Wolfshadw]

I think my point is that if there is a civilization (or many) out there traveling among the stars, it would seem to me that Resources would not be an issue. If they were, you're not going to come to some tiny blue/green dot around some insignificant star for them when there appear to be so many "Super-Earths" about.

Also, if resources are not an issue, then you certainly don't need a troublesome and fragile slave workforce to get them.

If it were their ideology they wanted to spread, why would they come to that same insignificant star hosting a civilization barely out of it's diapers in comparison? That'd be like trying to engage in a conversation with a toddler that just learned how to ask, "Why?"

Of course, if an alien species did land and had a book whose title translated was, "To Serve Man", I'm bugging out!

-Wolf sends

 

[Bmarion36]

Hi all
i sincerely thing this will be a 50/50 chance, if they are as intelligent as presumed it might be a friendly chat, but other way ground i see it going hostile as their will be fight for possessions.

 

[dfjchem721]

I think my point is that if there is a civilization (or many) out there traveling among the stars, it would seem to me that Resources would not be an issue.

That is one of the prime issues. Are there many civilizations around? If not, humans would be very interesting to study in many ways.

Your point on resources is certainly reasonable. But not knowing what any super-earth's chemistry is, those small dots that have life might be prime targets to study and utilize, as well as their inhabitants. Might be a two-fer.

 

[dfjchem721]

Also, if resources are not an issue, then you certainly don't need a troublesome and fragile slave workforce to get them.

Enslaving people could be more involved than just free labor. There is a major ego boost to it all as well, and likely other aspects we are not aware of. And who could tell what might drive alien species to other worlds, if not for interaction and/or domination? Resources abound much more than other life forms! That alone would make us interesting.

How their cultures evolved would define their behavior among themselves, and with others they might "visit", and could be independent of their capabilities. Humans have fairly advanced sciences, but there currently appears to be a move away from any understanding or caring about the needs of the "collective". That this kind of culture would perpetuate for long periods of time might very well be the rule rather than the exception.

It also remains possible that advanced aliens could be involved with internal "power struggles". Again, it certainly cannot be ruled out that reaching an apex in science and technology does not coincide with advances in "social harmony" within a given species. Such ingrained behavior might not make for the best dinner guests, in more ways than one.

Hate to use the analogy, but you do know how Klingons change their power hierarchy either on a war bird, or at the home world. Usually with extreme violence. While that all seems so sci-fi-ish, some sociologists would likely agree that a "master" position, and other positions of power, might be in a chain-of-command structure for any aliens. Indeed, it might be a requirement for such species to progress to such high levels.

So it is not hard to rule out that aliens might find humans and their dot worth more than just a quick glance. It depends on a lot of things. But the famous war historian Gwynne Dyer noted in his remarkable book War, that battles and wars did not begin until civilization arose. Fixed places with things to steal was a primary objective that did not exist with hunter-gatherers. Since this behavior might be hard to expel from a given species "culture", it remains possible that any alien visitor(s) could be more viscous than Attila the Hun.

 

[KC Strom]

Perhaps they just want a piece of Boston Cream Pie.

 

[Wolfshadw]

Might be a two-fer.

Might also be a quarantine zone. For all we know, there may be warning signs posted just outside the Oort Cloud warning passer-bys to stay clear.

I'm not discounting that an alien civilization may take more than a passing interest in Earth and it's inhabitants, but I like the analogy made in the movie Contact. If they were hostile, it'd be like them going out of their way to smash an ant hill in Africa. And I also like the response of just how bad would we feel if we went out of our way to smash an ant hill in Africa.

As for a Militaristic style civilization, I'd still maintain that there's not much interest here. It's not a place you would expect to find vast riches/resources or even prestige. "Whoop-dee-doo! You beat up on the Earthlings!" We're like the Baltic Avenue of the Galaxy. There's some value to the property, but you're not going to go out of your way to get it.

Gwynne Dyer noted in his remarkable book War, that battles and wars did not begin until civilization arose.

As for Gwynne Dyer's book, I cannot speak to it as I have not read it, but based on your comments, I would say that he doesn't consider animal packs as civilization. Alphas are constantly challenged by lesser members of the pack for food/mating rights. Challenges for territory are common in the animal kingdom and not strictly a human invention.

If that particular trait is common among life in the galaxy, then I would almost expect a Militaristic civilization to rise and gain dominance... and if you want to go with the idea that we've been visited by them, where are they?

-Wolf sends

 

[dfjchem721]

Alphas are constantly challenged by lesser members of the pack for food/mating rights. Challenges for territory are common in the animal kingdom and not strictly a human invention.

If that particular trait is common among life in the galaxy, then I would almost expect a Militaristic civilization to rise and gain dominance... and if you want to go with the idea that we've been visited by them, where are they?

Pecking order within a species is an indication of aggressive tendencies. And it certainly applies to humans, at least for anyone who has had a "boss", which could be a mother, or other family member, or even a Marine Drill Instructor! But there you have noted a significant aspect to behavior within a group. You also see the same behavior among other primates, and numerous other species no doubt.

No one can say for certain if we have been "visited" or not, at least there is no really solid evidence for it. And of course there is always the stealthy observer aspect. One suspects that an advanced species might find an alien species like ours to be a perfect subject for research, with or without all of the abductions, etc. Might make for some great research articles, and provide future funding for their spacehips!

That would likely depend on how rare life is in the universe.

 

[Wolfshadw]

One suspects that an advanced species might find an alien species like ours to be a perfect subject for research, with or without all of the abductions, etc. Might make for some great research articles, and provide future funding for their spacehips!

Which leads us back to my original (serious) hypothesis in that we are a type of living historical document. Study of our civilization provides alien scientists with insights to how their own civilization survived/almost died/played the piano/whatever...

-Wolf sends

 

[Helio]

Assuming there are no new ways around spacetime physics....

I suspect the problem is time since so little juice comes from an awful lot of squeeze, not to diminish the value of a Boston pie. If a civilization is capable of near light-speed travel and they are relatively close, say 1000 light years distant, then travelers who chose to visit us and then return will have sacrificed over 2000 years of their history with their family members for those that didn't come.

They would also be forced to base their Earthly expectations of what they would find on information that is 1000 years old, assuming they were much closer to us for monitoring in the first place before they launched our direction.

If they elect to stay, they may be taking quite a gamble that they would be given their own place and have peace. They could offer us a cook book, I suppose. [Any Twilight Zone fans around?]

 

[Wolfshadw]

If they elect to stay, they may be taking quite a gamble that they would be given their own place and have peace.

Unless they've been here all along and we just haven't figured it out yet. Yes, I'm looking at you whales, dolphins, and octopi!

[Any Twilight Zone fans around?]

I thought I covered that already:

Of course, if an alien species did land and had a book whose title translated was, "To Serve Man", I'm bugging out!

-Wolf sends

 

[Helio]

Unless they've been here all along and we just haven't figured it out yet. Yes, I'm looking at you whales, dolphins, and octopi!

Hmmm, well they are saying that there is a lot more water out there than we thought.

I thought I covered that already:

Of course, if an alien species did land and had a book whose title translated was, "To Serve Man", I'm bugging out!

Ah, yes you did! [Perhaps my cursory read made into my subconscious.] I was a kid when I saw that one and I never liked Lurch since.

 

[Wolfshadw]

I was a kid when I saw that one and I never liked Lurch since

I was always more of a Munster's kid. IMO, they had the better theme song, but I always did like Lurch's voice and always tried to imitate it by saying "You Rang" while burping (to get the guttural sound)

Hmmm, well they are saying that there is a lot more water out there than we thought

Given that oxygen is the third most abundant element in the universe, I'm not sure why they thought any differently (not that I knew any differently up until you mentioned it).

-Wolf sends

 

[Helio]

I was always more of a Munster's kid. IMO, they had the better theme song, but I always did like Lurch's voice and always tried to imitate it by saying "You Rang" while burping (to get the guttural sound)

That sounds like a potential Youtube challenge worth pursuing. But I too preferred the Munsters; we had more fun as they had more fun.

Given that oxygen is the third most abundant element in the universe, I'm not sure why they thought any differently (not that I knew any differently up until you mentioned it).

Perhaps the lack of water on the Moon, along with Mercury, Venus, and Mars gave reasonable pause. But the discovery of water ice in abundance on Mars and now the Moon, along with more in asteroids, IIRC, helped the dry theories get... watered down, so to speak.

 

[Truthseeker007]

We have all read or heard about aliens abducting people, and doing all sorts of wild and crazy things! But no one has really verified these claims, or at least most of us don't think so. And of course reports of UFOs abound. I see them every night. They all have flashing lights (the ones I can see), but I certainly cannot identify them. Who knows what they are, or where they came from?

But if real aliens do visit Earth, many think they will come and take all our water and air, and either eat us, enslave us, or just leave all of us to perish.

Others believe they will want to have a chat and exchange ideas. And still others believe they will just quietly watch what we are doing, taking notes.

What do you think?

If they wanted to kill us all and take over the planet they would have done so already.

I think their are many different types. Some researchers even say a faction from Orion has taken over the planet behind the scenes. Which is why the world is like it is. With control, and wars and all that. Some call them the Archons. Others such as the Pleadians are like the big brothers of the humans. Just like anything else there are ones that want to control the humans and ones that want to help the humans. There is some interesting information here for starters.

I have a website for more info. PM me for the link.

Mod Edit

 

[IG2007]

First of all, dfjchem, I am sorry that I went asleep when you sent the link to this thread in my messages.

I don't think that aliens are gonna attack us. I mean, they should have some reason behind attacking us. Resources? Nah, there are many planets and asteroids hovering in the universe, I don't think that Earth has something what so many other asteroids and planets don't have and also, why will they bear the trouble of attacking us when there are so many resources just flying around. Labour? I don't think so. If an alien world is really capable of interstellar travel, they should have hundreds of robots working for them all around. So, we can take that assumption out of account. Just for fun? A big LOL, I mean, why will they even try to attack us just for fun? That's a laughable assumption.

And also, what will be their mode of transport? I mean, even if they travel extremely close to the speed of light, why will they even bear the brunt of travelling a hundred lightyears when they can just look at us? If they want to just observe us, they will just launch a big telescope into space and just look at us. Or, if they want to get our news. They can just adjust their radio telescopes and listen to the radios, it's that simple, I guess.

Well, even if they can do a warp or something like that. Maybe, they know how to do an Alcubierre Drive. But there, how can they get so much energy!? As far as I know, to do an Alcubierre, we need a mass equivalent to the mass of Jupiter. And, oh E = mc², it is ridiculous to get that much amount of energy! And also, how can they make negative mass? It seems ridiculous to me. I mean, that will be just a degree less than impossible. Not if they can suck energy out of a black hole.

I am going to talk some Philosophy now. What is the secret behind the success of human species? Our thirst for knowledge. It's because of our thirst for knowledge, we have reached this far. It's because of our thirst for knowledge, we first ventured into the seas. It's because of our thirst for knowledge, we first discovered how to control fire. It's because of our thirst for knowledge, we first made religions to define things we don't know. It's because of our thirst for knowledge, we first made spaceships to travel into the unknown.

Well, now, if an alien species really has the same thirst for knowledge, then, I won't be surprised if they really take the risk of going into the unknown to find us. Tell me, if humans become as developed as them, won't we at least, send interstellar satellites? Of course, we will. But, it will take time for the satellite to reach another solar system, even if it reaches. But, there, we don't know how rare is life in the universe. And also, we don't know how old the oldest intelligent species are. Let's say the nearest intelligent life is 100 lightyears far. We, humans, are just 30,000 years old, and if we take the hominins into account, we are almost 2 or 3 million years old. Now, say, the nearest intelligent life is 100 million years old. Then, of course, they are far, far, far more advanced than us. Well, if they are really that old, then, I won't be surprised if they are here on Earth already. Maybe, who knows, they look just like humans or are wearing a suit pretending they are humans. Who knows?

Well, there have been many conspiracy theories that aliens control the Earth. And, they are the ones who made us, helped us develop and blah blah. Um, I don't know about them, but I believe that aliens have visited us at least once.

It's really easy. We won't even know that they even saw us. There are so many interstellar comets flying around. Who knows that the aliens didn't build their bases on one of them and have visited hundreds of solar system, maybe even ours.

Well, you all have already thought about wars between aliens. Er, if they are like us, I won't be surprised if they are battling each other. But, I guess, a peaceful environment is important for space travel.

So, here we stand, at least I stand, we don't know anything. We have just started to swim in the never-ending ocean of the Universe.

 

[dfjchem721]

Wow IG2007!

When I asked you to check this thread out and respond, was not expecting a dissertation. You can go graduate now, no more learning curve for you! An outstanding overview to be sure.

You have presented quite a lot of food for thought. Hopefully others will take up some of the many aspects you have raised.

One of those I consider the most difficult to project would be the behavior of any alien to other aliens on other worlds. (Which is why I started this thread.) Despite the concept that intelligence and peaceful co-existence seem likely, in actuality it may very well depend on how a species evolved, and what it took to rise to the top of the pile, so to say. Extreme competition through evolution on a given planet with a lot of life forms should be considered highly probable, and not just due to our knowledge of earth. And such competition would likely be fierce - eat or be eaten. It must be assumed that many different species would co-evolve on a given planet, with only one or perhaps a few ending up "in control". Even then it would seem that only one would finally prevail, just like humans have on earth. Simple evolution.

We could not know what is in their ancestry where genetically ingrained behaviors are permanently fixed. Key survival "skills" to eat, and avoid predators, would have a major impact down-stream on many other aspects in the behavior of any "advanced" species. As was pointed out earlier about alpha males, and aspects of hostility, despite our fine arts and wonderful sciences, humans are just animals in many ways. Instincts are very difficult to suppress. Surely humans are no universal guide on this, but it is the only one we have.

If you look at our evolution (as you said really started a few million years ago), the ability to make tools and survive in a world of predators, extreme violence must have played an important role in our survival and ascension. Otherwise, we would have been food for lions and tigers, etc. Again, this behavior, more than any other aspect, is the most difficult to predict in an alien. As noted before, resources are everywhere so there is no need to come here for them. But if life, even "primitive" human life, is rare, than the only reason for them to come to earth is to check us out. And with the power that would come with interstellar travel, we better hope they are not hostile, or we could end up on the short end of a very short stick!

 

[Catastrophe]

Whilst I join with dfj's congratulations to IG, I have to say (very much tongue in cheek) that I cannot participate in this thread, as the subject is not subject to scientific questioning or falsification - this being a science forum

Perhaps we might all consider (but NOT in this thread) a high level split (equivalent to Community) between scientific, potentially scientific matters and even, with suitable restriction, science fiction?

 

[dfjchem721]

Hi all
i sincerely thing this will be a 50/50 chance, if they are as intelligent as presumed it might be a friendly chat, but other way ground i see it going hostile as their will be fight for possessions.

And what possessions will they most likely fight for?

Not likely to be resources, but perhaps our fine arts? They may think (like the French) that the Mona Lisa is the most valuable object in the universe! One look at her could be all it takes. Then there could be the Van Gogh enthusiasts, etc. etc. Many would think Vermeer would be the optimal "souvenir" to take back to the home planet, or perhaps the fabulous treasures of King Tut. Jeez, King Tut's stuff might buy you a dozen solar systems somewhere in a prime part of the galaxy!

One imagines that at least the French would put up a major fight.

And of course some of the various life forms that still survive today could be herded back to a cosmic zoo. There are many possibilities. A 1965 Corvette with a 427 and dual quads might send some of them over the moon!

Whist I join with dfj's congratulations to IG, I have to say (very much tongue in cheek) that I cannot participate in this thread, as the subject is not subject to scientific questioning or falsification - this being a science forum

While we usually agree on things, Cat, I believe the dissertation from IG2007 offers some refutation to your notion. Alien life is a large part of our exploration of the solar system, and perhaps the universe if we survive long enough. Clearly considering the behavior of any aliens we might encounter, here or out there, deserves some scrutiny. Psychology and evolutionary pressures on behavior are "subject to scientific questioning" at the very least.

Is it possible that Cat was abducted and simply does not want to relive the horrors?!

Bringing all that out could be cathartic for Catastrophe, if that is the case!

Just keep on thinking "it was only a dream".........

 

[Catastrophe]

Darn it. Since I have been sussed, I have to confirm that I am actually an alien (by your standards) sent by higher intelligences to drag your species up towards some first semblance of our level.

You will probably be pleased to hear that my pitiful efforts (in general) over the last 500 years or so have resulted in my recall and doubtless downgrading.
I guess that the more optimistic scientists from our pan galactic civilisation might want to continue the experiment. The alternative I am not authorised to discuss.

Confederation of Allied Technologies
External Affairs Division.
Cat

 

[IG2007]

Whist I join with dfj's congratulations to IG, I have to say (very much tongue in cheek) that I cannot participate in this thread, as the subject is not subject to scientific questioning or falsification - this being a science forum

Well, not if you think about ways of transportation, Cat.

To @dfjchem721, thank you, I am honoured.

Well, coming to the point, you have really given a good and interesting point. Well, as far as I know about human history and evolution (again, I don't know much; I am just a teenager, pls correct me if I am wrong, everyone), humans were weak creatures in the beginning and were like animals, but the only difference was:- thirst for knowledge and intelligence.

I guess, correct me if I am wrong, we still don't know whether we should call ourselves the most intelligent species on Earth. In my opinion, intelligence is relative. We are the most intelligent and the least intelligent at the same time. We have built things, which, if used in the wrong way, can destroy everyone. We have done things that are questioning our existence on the Earth. Well, the animals are far more intelligent than us there. They have done nothing to question their existence. It's our fault.

Well, if you think the other way, then, yeah, we are the most intelligent species on Earth. We have always tried to make our living standards better. And, only because of us have the living organisms of Earth have ever travelled to outer space.

Also, we have no physical strength, only intelligence. What if our alien friends have both of them? Well, that's going to be a problem. Though that sounds like an ad absurdum of the evolution theory, it's logical in my opinion.

And, that's going to be a problem if we try to be diplomatic to them. They should be much more fierce than us and will frequently fight. And, if my assumption is true, then, we should not think that they will be very polite to us.

 

[dfjchem721]

Darn it. Since I have been sussed, I have to confirm that I am actually an alien (by your standards) sent by higher intelligences to drag your species up towards some first semblance of our level.

Always knew there was something weird about this guy. Now that he 'fesses up to being an alien, we will all have to watch out for his posts, and the questions he asks us. Be careful how you respond, or you might end up being abducted, with something stuck up somewhere unpleasant into your bodies. Probes of all kinds, one imagines.

And this notion of a recall is pure hogwash, to throw us off his trail. He is getting his last data-set for when he returns to C.A.T. to become CEO of that operation, which he erroneously refers to. It is actually :

Confederation of Alien Technologies (there was nothing allied about it!)

(Clearly not of earthly origin).

"Catastrophe" is likely some inside joke he is using to define our ultimate demise.

 

[Helio]

"Catastrophe" is likely some inside joke he is using to define our ultimate demise.

I think it's a ruse to keep us from looking too closely in Leo. [shhhh, let's not let him know we are on to him.]