America's Space Prize is such a scam!

[scottb50]

If a FalconV can put 8-12 thousand pounds, or so, into orbit, for $12 million the vehicle needed doesn't have to be that expensive or complicated. A modernized Gemini could be built for peanuts in a garage. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"But still SS1 has a better chance of going mach 12 than mach 25 (orbital velocity). "</font><br /><br />I could say that a human sprinter has a better chance of running at a speed of 100mph than 200mph. That doesn't mean it's something that is actually going to happen. Forget SS1 -- it was a plane designed for a single purpose. It completed its designed mission admirably. However, that mission is over and it's *not* designed for anything else.<br /><br />Son-of-SS1 might be more flexible. We'll see. It's still massively unlikely that it will be a platform capable of reaching 100km and mach 12 simultaneously.

 

[scottb50]

No, but on the way down it might make Mach12. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"No, but on the way down it might make Mach12. "</font><br /><br />You might be kidding, but since there's no smiley and I'd just as soon no one pick up on that and think it has any relation to actual physics -- let's do some math.<br /><br />Mach = 1116 ft/sec<br /><br />Actually mach is a ratio based on the speed of sound and varies by the temperature of the air. At 100km. of course -- mach 12 is a misnomer since sound isn't moving anywhere. However -- we'll use the 1116 as the most commonly used ratio.<br /><br />13392 ft/sec = mach 12<br /><br />From apogee, SS1 will be falling at 1g, or 9.8 meters per second per second. Calculating how long it will take at this acceleration (we'll discount air friction to get the *fastest* time SS1 could reach mach 12).<br /><br />9.8 ft/sec/sec * x sec = 13392 ft/sec<br />1366 seconds to achieve mach 12 accelerating at 1g<br /><br />Calculating how far SS1 has travelled is a bit harder done properly -- but I'm going to cheat. Given a constant acceleration, you can simply use the midpoint velocity (mach 6) times the total time to get a distance travelled.<br /><br />6696 ft/sec = mach 6<br /><br />6696 ft/sec * 1266 second = 9,146,736 feet<br /><br />9,146,736 feet = 1,732 miles or 2,788 km.<br /><br />The initial height was only 62miles/100km. So -- long before SS1 reaches mach 12 on the way down -- it has become one with an impact crater. Very zen.

 

[scottb50]

I really didn't bother to go into that much depth, thanks for the figures. Sorry, I just can't bring myself to use a smiley face. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[the_ten]

<font color="yellow">"That was a bit presumptious... wasn't it? I'm not going to trump you by going as far as to say for whom or what I work on... but I will give you a hint by saying that I live in Houston and everyday get to witness the hard work and dedication required to make spaceflight a reality... <br /><br />Rest assured... $50M is nowhere near enough..."</font><br />-----<br />It's irrelevant who you are and what you do because at best you are merely one person and one mind. You can't deny the fact that you have no clue what fruits the creativity & enginuity of others bare.<br /><br />The greatest leaps mankind has experienced have NEVER been at the hands of people, like yourself, who say 'it's not possible'. Hence why I say I'm glad we don't need to depend on you for anything... Pessimism does not lead to accomplishing goals or better yet, surpassing them.<br /><br />Just because you can't come up with the answers doesn't mean nobody else can. I'll put my faith in the people who think they can...Not the ones who <i>know</i> they can't.

 

[najab]

><i>...9.8 ft/sec/sec * x sec = 13392 ft/sec....</i><p>Now I know you work for JPL - you mixed up your metric and imperial measurements! <p>g is 9.8 <b>metres</b> per second, or about 32.3 ft/sec. Plugging that in to your calculations, we find that it takes a mere 524 miles (844km) for SS1 to reach Mach 12.</p></p>

 

[mrmorris]

<font color="yellow">"...you mixed up your metric and imperial measurements! </font><br /><br />Oh Crud! *sigh*<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"...we find that it takes a mere 524 miles (844km) for SS1 to reach Mach 12. </font><br /><br />Oh well. It will create an impact crater in either measurement system before reaching mach 12, so the point is moot (albeit embarrassing).

 

[spacester]

Whatever units are used, it's lithocapture either way. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[grooble]

This company is competing for the $50m prize:<br /><br />http://www.interorbital.com/<br /><br />Read the right hand box on the main page.

 

[wvbraun]

The question is: Do they have what it takes, i.e. is there a billionaire backing their project?

 

[grooble]

Isn't it where Dick Rutan works? Burts bro.

 

[crix]

Holy moly! They say they'll have their orbital manned launcher operating in three years!! I don't see and mention of the Rutan name on the website.<br /><br />:-D <br /><br />Big dumb booster launched from the water using a floating vertical ballast! haha! This is ingenius! OMG, I'm all giddy again.<br /><br />NEPTUNE! What a beautiful name for a launcher!

 

[no_way]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>This company is competing for the $50m prize: <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Dont get your hopes too high. These guys competed for both the CATS prize and X-prize too ...

 

[arobie]

Actually, I think Dick Rutan works for XCor Aerospace.

 

[thecolonel]

<i>It's irrelevant who you are and what you do because at best you are merely one person and one mind. You can't deny the fact that you have no clue what fruits the creativity & enginuity of others bare. <br /><br />The greatest leaps mankind has experienced have NEVER been at the hands of people, like yourself, who say 'it's not possible'. Hence why I say I'm glad we don't need to depend on you for anything... Pessimism does not lead to accomplishing goals or better yet, surpassing them. <br /><br />Just because you can't come up with the answers doesn't mean nobody else can. I'll put my faith in the people who think they can...Not the ones who know they can't.</i><br /><br />Good lord... take a deep breath... I would like nothing more than to wake up one day in a world where space is accessible to every human being on the planet.<br /><br />My whole point was that we are not going to get cheap access to space by chasing some faux prize from some fat cat in Vegas that wants people to dump R&D into a prize that he has purposely made impossible to achieve.<br /><br />Ingenuity and creativity are beautiful things... but if you don't possess even an ounce of pragmatism then they are worthless...

 

[grooble]

I asked earlier, what would a good time frame be? An extra 3 years perhaps?

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"My whole point was that we are not going to get cheap access to space by chasing some faux prize from some fat cat in Vegas that wants people to dump R&D into a prize that he has purposely made impossible to achieve."</font><br /><br />I agree that the deadline is optimistic, but why be so cynical? Bigelow is only setting the bar and providing an incentive. If others wish to waste their resources to pursue it then who gets hurt besides those that waste their resources? And who knows? Maybe someone will actually advance the cause even if they don't win the prize. And of course the deadline can always be extended. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[thecolonel]

I am probably being too cynical... but I had been hoping for a less ambitious prize proposal that could be captured in the short term. Following quickly on the heels of the X-Prize... another quick victory would send a strong message to many different constinuents ranging from mass media to NASA (maybe they would ACTUALLY get involved in awarding some large prizes)...<br /><br />I guess all I'm saying is that I hope America's Prize isn't so difficult that we win the battle and lose the war so to speak...

 

[yree]

cool

 

[dan_casale]

http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0411/17boeingx43/<br /><br />Now that we have a working Mach 10 engine, the concept I support has taken another step forward.<br /><br />1) Single string tether system was tested on Shuttle.<br />2) Mach 10 scram jet engine just tested.<br /><br />to do items.<br />1) Test Hoytether configuration.<br />2) Test capture system<br />3) Begin building production system.<br /><br />OK. So that is the 300 mile view.