ANGRY AT NASA!

[ZenGalacticore]

I'm guessing the sound you like to hear is that you are right, so you are right, whatever Zen, Have a nice day now.

I'll argue that point, I'm wrong sometimes! :lol:

M.Wayne- Who's engaging in name calling? :?

 

[tampaDreamer]

Remember the future will probably be radically different that it is today. Just 40 years ago the personal computer was a laughable thing to talk about. Here we are talking on personal computers! Unless someone here is logged on to a computer the size of a room. :mrgreen:

As rooms get smaller, this may again be possible! :lol:

 

[starrrchild]

Hey brother in regards to you being mad at NASA, Hmmm....... well you make some good points but I think if NASA had it their way things would be a lot different in many ways. I also think that Barack Hussein Obama cares about NASA about as much as Osama Bin Laden does, heck their probably distant relatives but thats a different problem.
The thing that gets my goat is how NASA shrouds us from all the evidence collected over the years concerning UFO's, Oooooooh ya thats right NASA is controlled by the GOV.
Its to bad that some of that bailout money didn't go to NASA instead of all those greedy folks.

 

[MeteorWayne]

starrrchild

Sort of Welcome to Space.com

Perhaps you should spend a little more effort in sticking to the subject of the discussion, rather than adding unrelated topics.

You can consider this a mild moderator warning...great for a first post.

 

[EscapeLaw]

The adage too many chiefs not enough injuns can apply..everytime there is a change in government you will see the Nasa program get tweaked toward that political party's budget. As long as we have a democratic government there will be a change of venue. Nothing we can do and it isnt Nasa's fault they are just following the budget/money.... :mrgreen:

 

[TC_sc]

We should all just get along and start our own space agency We can decide on a direction and then elect a board to run things and have some go out and look for investors. Since it will be a non profit organization we can even have the investors take it off on taxes I guess we could call it a space co-op. Ok not like we will ever make any profit, but it sounds nice Think we collect millions of memberships and $100 each. That's a heck of a start. I bet we can find enough off the shelf hardware to build something cheap.

Would we go for a winged orbital craft or bigger, the moon or Mars?

This would be way more fun than going to Area 51

 

[neutrino78x]

hey I didn't really want to spam the forum by repeating the post, but you guys reading this thread might be interested in my "zubrin interviewed on coast to coast" thread. He was talking about the same topic, I have the Mars Society reply to the augustine commission linked on there too

 

[DaMarTri]

Well, be mad but check this out.
http://www.space.com/news/090226-nasa-o ... udget.html

 

[neutrino78x]

Well, be mad but check this out.
http://www.space.com/news/090226-nasa-o ... udget.html

Actually, that looks like a good thing. NASA is getting more money, I don't see anything in there that says SpaceX will get their commercial contracts cut, so there will also be a commercial rocket delivering cargo to the ISS. Of course, the President cannot write control the budget, that power is in the Congress. He proposes a budget, Congress votes on a budget bill, and then the President approves or vetoes it. If he does veto a bill by Congress, they can override it by voting again with a 2/3 majority.

 

[TC_sc]

Angry at Nasa?
Good heavens, whatever for? Have we forgotten the monumental achievents? Hubble? Spritzer? New Horizon? How bout the ISS? the mar's rovers... for the love of all that is good, Nasa certainly has acheived a great deal and expanded our knowledge base.
I have scrutinized nasa's current direction and I find it very logical. A definite improvement over past missions and the budgets they require. Constellation is a beautiful program.
People watch too much scifi. Getting to Mars is infintely more difficult then the moon. The technologies for such an endeavor arent even in existence......until Nasa invents them.
Nah, this is one scientist who approves. And I praise Obama's selection of administrators. Finally! Scientists in Scientific positions!

If we were building a Mars vehicle then we could see the long time line to get flying. For now we are just building a capsule to get us back and forth to ISS. Just how hard can that be? I know some of the technology will be used for luna/Mars missions, but that's not the current goal. Since the first stage is an expanded SRB, the only thing left is the capsule and a second stage. This is going to take 10 years? There is more to this story than we are seeing. Maybe this is just a lot of job security.

This is the difference between government and private industry doing something. Private industry must move fast to save money, while government moves slower to get more money. I think we have a right to be angry with NASA despite some spectacular achievements.

Hubble is a magnificent tool, but if left to NASA we would be planning to deorbit the craft instead of looking forward to years of new science. It was people like you and me that pushed for the Hubble re-servicing mission. NASA was ready to dump Hubble into the ocean just as they are with ISS. Those were to be a cost saving measure to build the moon and Mars missions. NASA is unwilling to cut in areas that aren't dedicated to manned space travel or space sciences. NASA has no focus. NASA needs to be only about things that apply to manned space travel and space sciences. We already have NOAA and NGS doing earth sciences.

 

[ZenGalacticore]

IMO if we are going back to the Moon to stay-which I believe we should- then we're going to need a permanent orbital station in one of the L orbits 1 thru 5. It makes sense to have a 'mama' weigh station in between the Earth and the Moon. For emergency rescue and supply if for nothing else. Maybe even two of them in opposite orbits.

 

[TC_sc]

IMO if we are going back to the Moon to stay-which I believe we should- then we're going to need a permanent orbital station in one of the L orbits 1 thru 5. It makes sense to have a 'mama' weigh station in between the Earth and the Moon. For emergency rescue and supply if for nothing else. Maybe even two of them in opposite orbits.

I happen back on this thread and began thinking about this post. You know I have said I am terrible at math Wouldn't it take a lot of fuel to dock with an object parked in one of the Lagrange points? Wouldn't it be better to keep that momentum and do a free return as did Apollo 13, or continue on to Earth if going the other direction?

I can also see something like you suggest making life easier in an Apollo 13 scenario. If they could dock with the rescue vehicle then they could use that life support and engines to return to Earth.

UPDATE:
SDC has an article about the test launch of Ares X-1 that was moved up four days. Is that cause for optimism? I think this test in itself is a waste of time since they are using only a 4 segment SRB. They are essentially test launching something that's been launched hundreds of times. Add the 5th segment to the booster and then test the staging, etc. That way you get some real numbers and see exactly the vibrations you can expect.

 

[thermionic]

>>SDC has an article about the test launch of Ares X-1 that was moved up four days. Is that cause for optimism? I think this test in itself is a waste of time since they are using only a 4 segment SRB. They are essentially test launching something that's been launched hundreds of times. Add the 5th segment to the booster and then test the staging, etc. That way you get some real numbers and see exactly the vibrations you can expect

It'll be a couple more years (with luck) before all the hardware for a 5-segment SRB & second-stage flight test will be available, I think. This 'early' launch will demonstrate whether the stick configuration is stable, controllable, efficient, practical & possible. I think it's pretty valuable for the development program. Of course NASA knows that it's good PR to actually fly the rocket.

 

[TC_sc]

>>SDC has an article about the test launch of Ares X-1 that was moved up four days. Is that cause for optimism? I think this test in itself is a waste of time since they are using only a 4 segment SRB. They are essentially test launching something that's been launched hundreds of times. Add the 5th segment to the booster and then test the staging, etc. That way you get some real numbers and see exactly the vibrations you can expect

It'll be a couple more years (with luck) before all the hardware for a 5-segment SRB & second-stage flight test will be available, I think. This 'early' launch will demonstrate whether the stick configuration is stable, controllable, efficient, practical & possible. I think it's pretty valuable for the development program. Of course NASA knows that it's good PR to actually fly the rocket.

:lol: you actually changed my mind as I was writing a reply. I guess they can get all the numbers from just 2 minutes of flight. At the time of my post I was thinking there is an increase in thrust with the 5th segment. I now remembered that the 5th stage just adds time, not thrust. This is hereby by my retraction

 

[MeteorWayne]

It makes the thrust last longer wihich increases the velocity (required to get to orbit)

 

[TC_sc]

It makes the thrust last longer wihich increases the velocity (required to get to orbit)

So true, but I think by the 2 minute mark we would be past maximum dynamic forces. That's why I backed up to agree with thermionic.

 

[superbubbadude]

Maybe I'm missing the whole point of space travel, Or maybe I'm not of this world. But why is space exploration so damn expensive for us? I mean why is everything so over complicated? I feel some things should be done, regardless of cost. Hey If we have the knowledge, the skills, the ambition, then lets go. It seems to me, give me an airtight camper, some oxygen, a extra large pizza and a keg of beer and I'm good to go. No muss, no fuss.

 

[TC_sc]

Maybe I'm missing the whole point of space travel, Or maybe I'm not of this world. But why is space exploration so damn expensive for us? I mean why is everything so over complicated? I feel some things should be done, regardless of cost. Hey If we have the knowledge, the skills, the ambition, then lets go. It seems to me, give me an airtight camper, some oxygen, a extra large pizza and a keg of beer and I'm good to go. No muss, no fuss.

Welcome to SDC superbubbadude. Put on your Kevlar and find a battle

Didn't some astronauts in the early years talk about NASA trying to be too safe?

superbubbadude, NASA is government. Government is always slower and cost more. History, though, points that it's almost always government that does exploration. NASA is an innovator, so that takes more time and money.

I do hope someday we see an Andy Griffith in a Salvage 1 rocketing to the moon I think the day will come if the money can become available. Maybe someday we can have a Farmer Astronaut.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Maybe I'm missing the whole point of space travel, Or maybe I'm not of this world. But why is space exploration so damn expensive for us? I mean why is everything so over complicated? I feel some things should be done, regardless of cost. Hey If we have the knowledge, the skills, the ambition, then lets go. It seems to me, give me an airtight camper, some oxygen, a extra large pizza and a keg of beer and I'm good to go. No muss, no fuss.

The simple answer is somebody has to pay for it. With NASA, that "who has to pay for it" is the US taxpayer. Those pursestrings are controlled by Congress.

If you have enough money to pay for it, feel free to launch yourself, your pizza, and keg and do it. Once you've proven it's safe, I'll be happy to ride along.

Until then, if it ain't your money, your input on the decisions are limited.

 

[KMel517]

We just have to get through all this financial mess that we are in right now and we can go on from there. I do believe that this is important to keep NASA around, but I am sure that the private sector will step up to the plate. But that being said, it will only be the rich people who will get to enjoy space and we just get to see the postcards saying; "wish you were here."

 

[vulture4]

>>Maybe I'm missing the whole point of space travel, Or maybe I'm not of this world. But why is space exploration so damn expensive for us? I mean why is everything so over complicated?

SpaceX is trying to simplify an expendable vehicle (but considering reuse) for flight to LEO while Virgin is going the fully reusable route with suborbitals (but considering orbital flight). ULA is thinking vaguely about following the classic Mercury/Gemini route of taking a fairly well tested military-develeped expendable launch vehicle and converting it for manned flight. We'll see which approach works.

 

[435T]

We just have to get through all this financial mess that we are in right now and we can go on from there. I do believe that this is important to keep NASA around, but I am sure that the private sector will step up to the plate. But that being said, it will only be the rich people who will get to enjoy space and we just get to see the postcards saying; "wish you were here."

Yeah, for now only the uber rich will get to go up with private sector crafts. But over time as technology develops space travel will become cheaper for everyone, just like the price of computers.

 

[TC_sc]

We just have to get through all this financial mess that we are in right now and we can go on from there. I do believe that this is important to keep NASA around, but I am sure that the private sector will step up to the plate. But that being said, it will only be the rich people who will get to enjoy space and we just get to see the postcards saying; "wish you were here."

Yeah, for now only the uber rich will get to go up with private sector crafts. But over time as technology develops space travel will become cheaper for everyone, just like the price of computers.

Thats the natural order of things. The rich had the first color televisions. The rich had the first large screen flat panel televisions. In the beginning only the rich could hop an airplane and fly cross country, now it's affordable even to the lower class. The rich buying things makes them become more affordable for the rest of us.

If this trend of sharing the wealth continues, then no one but the rich will be able to afford the next generation of television, or stay in the Bigelow Orbital Inn.