Apollo 13 SM capture?

[redstone_1]

Hey Shuttle_Guy, would the Apollo Service Module be able to fit into the cargo bay of the Space Shuttle? If so, could the US go out and grab the Apollo 13 SM (or the Aquarious LM for that matter) and bring them down? <br /><br />I have no feasable argument for why we would do this except it would be a very big attraction at the Smithsonian or the NASA museum, I'm just curious if its possible. I'm not even sure those pieces of equipment are in orbit. Are they or are they drifting off into space?

 

[PistolPete]

IIRC the Apollo SMs either burned up in the atmosphere or ended up in a solar orbit. Shuttle Guy may be able to correct me on that, but either way, they are well out of reach of the Shuttle. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[bpcooper]

Both SM and LM on 13 burned up at nearly the same time as the CM entered the atmosphere. They were on the same trajectory. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-Ben</p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

I do not know about it fitting into the cargo bay, but the SM was powerless by the time it went around the moon. As such, it had no way to get off the trajectory the command module was on. The CM was presumably able to move out of the way with its thrusters, but it would not be able to achieve much Delta V. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[qso1]

Years ago I did a sort of paper study of sending Apollo to the moon and back via shuttle. Using the shuttle as the earth orbital element. The shuttle doing the job the Saturn did.<br /><br />The CSM could fit into the shuttle payload bay. Essentially all one has to do is add trunnions and the necessary cabling to allow for checkout before deployment. However, due to the fueled mass of the SM (Over 50K lbs fueled), I found that it had to be split from the CM so I manifested the CM and LM together. BTW, the lunar module would have to be of a narrower design to fit into the payload bay even with the landing legs stowed.<br /><br />You also had to have a completely redesigned earth escape stage, fueled and IIRC. Two or maybe more were required to provide the propellant quantity of the Saturn-IVB stage. The main advantage was utilizing a reuseable launch system to get the Apollo elements to LEO for assmbly into a stack and having TLI propulsion capability added. The main disadvantage, more shuttle flights than the single flight of a Saturn-V for each lunar mission. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Correct, the Apollo 13 SM was essentially dead and mission control did not want to risk firing the SPS which was thought to still be functional at the time of the mission. But the risk was in firing a potentially damaged SPS engine. The LM was used for propulsive and attitude correction burns and the way the configuration is arranged when docked, the CM was out of the way without having to do any maneuvers.<br /><br />Once the stack neared Earth, the LM was jettisoned, then the SM. The CM entered the atmosphere and the other two elements followed shortly after. Both SM and LM being incinerated in the earths atmosphere. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[PistolPete]

I thought it was the other way around, the SM was jettisoned first then the LM. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

I think your right. A mistatement on my part and IIRC, the famous image of the damaged SM may have been taken from the LM. In that case, the LM was probably used to maneuver the CM into the proper attitude for re-entry before it was jettisoned. The CM ACS being used for fine tuning during approach to re-entry after LM separation. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Sounds like three shuttle launchs would coorespond to one Saturn V flight. Would that be from the weight or just the volume? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[qso1]

A little bit of both, especially where the TLI stage is concerned. A TLI stage designed around the shuttle would be significantly smaller than the Saturn IV-B and the diameter would affect volumetric distribution of the propellant load.<br /><br />The SRB/ET elements lift about the same mass as the Saturn was capable of for LEO. That mass being an orbiter. The payload portion of that mass is far smaller however because of the design.<br /><br />The shuttle can take about 48,000 lbs to LEO and originally was designed to take 65,000 lbs to LEO until post Challenger hardware mods lowered the payload capacity. But when the shuttle is launched, the whole roughly 250,000 pound orbiter is going to LEO just as the Saturn V clould launch about that amount to LEO although the only heavy lift use to LEO was the roughly 170,000 pound Skylab station. The Saturn could send approx. 90,000 pounds to the moon. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[henryhallam]

The Apollo 10 LM is still out in solar orbit somewhere. Out of reach of the Shuttle of course. But maybe it will be recovered at some future date.