Are billion dollar experiments such as LIGO justified ?

Jzz

May 10, 2021
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What I have to say might not be popular, but it has to be said. A good point to start would be gravity waves. The LIGO experiment has made some sensational claims on the detection of gravity waves. Yet if one actually reads about LIGO we find that it needs a sensitivity of one 10,000th of half the width of a proton, (Proton Dia = 10^-15) so the sensitivity of that the LIGO interferometer has to possess has to be somewhere in the region of 10^-21m. Considering that we possess femtosecond lasers that are rapidly increasing in sophistication, the proposed interference detection capability sounds reasonable. But when making such an assessment one has to keep in mind that the mere footfall of a man weighing a hundred kilograms and at a distance of 1000 km from LIGO would be more than a million times stronger than the signal expected to be generated by gravity waves. This raises a whole lot of new concerns. The turning of a cog, the snapping on of a switch, the starting of a car engine, the falling of an object and so on ad infinitum, the instances multiply exponentially. The theory is that computers can sort through all of these noises and only respond to a very particular type of sound signal. The building of more LIGO like facilities around the world, would further help filter out these signals. But how realistic is this line of thinking? If the starting or revving of a car motor can be detected by LIGO from several thousands of kilometres away, it is probable that the same signal could be detected by multiple LIGO apparatus around the world. Keep in mind that LIGO cost in excess of 2.2 million dollars to build.

How about quantum computing? To begin with, the original intention of quantum computing was to use quantum entangled particles, in spite of a lot of hype this has not worked out, instead what is used to record data, is changes in the electrical fields of a Josephson junction which amounts to just a more sensitive everyday analog device. Google is offering a 5 million dollar reward for anyone who can come up with practical uses for quantum computers. How much has been spent on the research into quantum computing? In 2022 alone more than 2.2 billion was spent on research, in 2023 as enthusiasm waned, that amount fell to 1.2 billion dollars, still a lot of money.

The truth is that quantum mechanics is a dinosaur that has had its day, it is sadly outdated and offers inadequate explanations for the discoveries made by modern day technology. The spending of these huge sums of money on trying to validate these old and let us face it, unsupportable theories such as wave-particle duality, quantum entanglement and super position is increasingly reminiscent of fanatical religious scribes willing to go to any lengths to validate their beliefs and to discredit opposition.

Take the question of virtual particles, even ten years ago the idea of virtual particles would invoke, even amongst physicists, widespread amazement and mockery, today virtual particles have become part of the lexicon. But is this enough?

An examination of the circumstances under which virtual particles were first discovered might help in the understanding of what really happened. The year was 1947, just a year since the first atomic bomb had exploded over Japan. If people had not heard about E = mc^2 till then, everyone knew about it now. Science had superseded God in the minds of people. The Second World War had just ended and with the burgeoning development of technology such as radar, computers, and the atomic bomb security was at an unheard of level. It was in this atmosphere of super secrecy that Willis Lamb first made the discovery that electrons within the atom were constantly emitting and absorbing ‘Virtual’ photons. Lamb was an expert in the microwave field and he was able to confirm that the electron in the hydrogen atom was constantly emitting and absorbing ‘virtual’ photons of an energy that fell within the microwave range by a reproducible empirical experiment called the Lamb Shift. Hence the conclusion that these absorptions and emission related to the fine structure constant within the Hydrogen atom i.e., a split within two energy levels that were closely spaced and hence of low energy. This discovery was corroborated by Feynman, Schwinger, and Tomonaga who clarified Bethe's explanation of the Lamb shift: namely that it occurs when an atom emits and absorbs virtual, unobservable photons. It was found that virtual photons are not only emitted from the same atom and captured again, but can also be exchanged between different atoms. Willis E Lamb was of the firm opinion that ALL electrons experience the Lamb shift but that these interactions were masked, in multiple electron atoms, by the presence of other electrons and hence difficult if not impossible to distinguish in multiple electron atoms. The Lamb shift can either be a self-interaction by the electron emitting and re-absorbing photons either with itself or an interaction with nearby electrons.

The discovery of ‘virtual’ particles never made it to the public forum and therefore never enjoyed the benefit of a free public discussion. This is why the supposition that since the electron was self-regulating its own energy by constantly emitting and absorbing ‘virtual’ photons the prospect of its radiating away its energy and falling into the nucleus did not arise. This meant that the raison de etre for the adoption of wave-particle duality no longer existed. Wave-particle duality should have ended right then: it did not.

The whole edifice of quantum mechanics is based on wave-particle duality and the Schrodinger wave-function, without it there is nothing left. Think about it! This is what physicists are trying to protect.

What will replace quantum mechanics? I am pretty sure it will be a modified aether based theory based on the existence of virtual particles. The wisdom of the past is as good as the wisdom of the present.
 
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Oct 30, 2024
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The world's economy produces 115 trillion dollars per year. The total expenditure on all research, all academia, all science, all development, public and private, is of 1.7 trillion dollars per year, which includes non-research costs like the wage of the researchers, the development of machinery that is used for non-research as well, the management costs, taxes, bank servicing, with the real direct research expenditure being of around 1 trillion dollars.

On this 1 trillion dollars per year (which is already less than 1% the world's economy), spending up to 1% (or 0.001% of world's economy per year) of this on high-value experiments is very reasonable. For example, the Future Circular Collider is asking for 17 billion dollars across 35 years, or 510 million dollars per year.

If you have another positive way to invest this money that is not just ending in more profits for shareholders that would end up in another luxury yacht, or in a million dollar wrist clock that a certain billionaire is wearing, or in a few AI servers that would end up using in refusing health requests from people shamelessly + the respective oil power plants, I am all ears, yes.

And I know, you really do not trust physics, so for you all of this seems like a waste of money, but this "dinosaur" that is the Standard Model of Particle Physics is entirely the sole reason why we are writing each other using a computer right now, as semiconductors have no classical equivalent, nor any of the other thousand of theories around in past and present can also give you a proper explanation of it that can be consistently tested and used in the real world.

It is not a religion, in fact it is the total inverse of it. The Standard Model was built to explain the empirical observations of empirical REAL LIFE experimentation, not in the inverse. It is deeply and directly built and constrained and limited to the collective perceived reality.

And I know, it is extremely, deeply, frustratingly, philosophical incomplete, it does not explain much why's or how's on a deeper level, it just takes real life empirical observations and assume "they are what they are and that is it" without explaining them, it is just a collective language model to describe what we are experiencing and seeing, but it does not, explicitly and intentionally, go beyond that.

But then, that is science: it is deeply rooted in empirical reality. And science is incomplete and flawed: it cannot be used for everything since we will always have incomplete empirical information. And that is fine, really, it does what it can do, and we use other disciplines of thought with different philosophical approaches to handle the other problems and questions of life, however investing in knowing more scientifically is always a positive as the other disciplines are less powerful and more abstract arbitrary by need.
 

Jzz

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Thank you Nyara for a well thought out and reasonable comment. Your polemic on how the world spends its money might be either naïve or a gentle reminder that the Western world is doing most of the research. I think even that premise might be way off the mark with the vast strides being made by other parts of the globe gradually outpacing discoveries made in the West. Look at China’s recent improvement on the Lithium battery. One of the reasons for this is the very close science/commerce relationship that exists in the West. Scientific discovery for the sake of discovery is a thing of the past. Again, looked at from a more prosaic point of view, the worldwide spending of in excess of a trillions dollars a year on infrastructure for scientific research is an incredible achievement for humanity.

Nyara said: " And I know, you really do not trust physics, so for you all of this seems like a waste of money, but this "dinosaur" that is the Standard Model of Particle Physics is entirely the sole reason why we are writing each other using a computer right now, as semiconductors have no classical equivalent, nor any of the other thousand of theories around in past and present can also give you a proper explanation of it that can be consistently tested and used in the real world.

Quite the contrary, it is a commonly held belief that the massive advances in technology have been made as a result of quantum mechanics. This is simply not true. Quantum mechanics is deeply (I would say fatally) flawed in its foundational premises and has been from the beginning. It just rides on the back of empirically based science. Yes, it works but this is because it makes premises based on end results rather than on causative premises. My beliefs are based not so much on a mistrust of physics but on the exact opposite namely that I have a total belief in an empirical physics and not on the esoteric, arcane and occult theories of quantum mechanics. Further, and quite remarkably, my premises seem to be increasingly supported by new discoveries. Take the discovery that optical atomic clocks demonstrate, in an unequivocal manner, that bound electrons vibrate at the rate of hundreds of Terahertz and absorb and emit photons at those rates. The old paradigm of quantum mechanics with its multiple electron wave-functions making quantum leaps, simply does not support such a scenario. If you remember the old Caesium 133 clocks did not resonate at the irradiated frequency, instead the atoms went into a metastable state and counting of the number of atoms in this state contributed to the accuracy of the time keeping. This fact enables the taking away off the initiative of explanations for the working of the “the very, very small.” from quantum mechanics and handing it back to classical physics, which dovetails perfectly into this new scenario and offers a cohesive explanation encompassing the whole of physics.
If you are interested, you can read my post at: https://forums.space.com/threads/augmented-newtonian-dynamics-and-on-science-vs-dogma.69604/
 
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The microcosm we study in its small detail (quantum discrete quanta) truly represents and models -- as a working model -- the nonrelative (non-simplistic mapped) macrocosm in its largest most complex and chaotic detail (still quantum discrete quanta).

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Continuing on:
Money is nothing more nor less than the token of energy and short history's accelerating expansion of space frontiers we are the child in its ninth month in the womb due to begin birthing out to new space frontiers and being prevented from birthing by Earthly Utopianism. The energy increases in the closed in box on a treadmill going nowhere are nothing more than negative energy increases . . . negative entropies (the U. S. alone 36 trillion dollars in debt and the total world's deficit of positive energies, thus energy token's -- money wealth -- deficit and debt, accelerating). A combustion engine of life working harder and harder going haywire tearing itself apart internally because of no external space frontier to pipe to . . . to exhaust to . . . and intake from.

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Michio Kaku, in his book 'Hyperspace', alluded to the fact that the human species had increased in numbers a million-fold in the last two-million years. In the same time period increasing its energies (thus structural and infrastructural limbs and organs, complexity, reaches, needs and wants (the child above encased in the womb)) two-million-fold average per every man, woman, and child, living, one-million-fold of that two-million-fold increase in energies, an acceleration in growth, needs, wants, in just the last eighty years.

To get the -- actually too simplistic -- result, but one result that might give you an idea of the trouble Mankind is in on Earth alone (the child being too long locked in its womb alone) multiply the one-million-fold increase in humanity by the two-million-fold increase in energies and ghost a resulting totality of humanity (eight-billion humans times two-million fold). A "complicate embryo" it is implosively called; complexity, reaches, energies, needs, wants, overarching, overpowering, and overwhelming the womb-world Earth-alone!

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Without an actual rather than fake breakout, an actual rather than fake birth out, an actual rather than fake expansion from Earth out to the Space Frontier (which will automatically include homelands as brand new frontiers also (the combustion engine of life gets its frontier exhaust and intake pipes), as history proves), beginning ASAP, Stephen Hawking has prophesied Mankind has just 1,000 years left to its self-extinction on Earth=alone! Per every history of just civilizations' (civilizations' total energy / synergy infrastructural) declines and falls -- meteors burning themselves up hellishly brighter and ever brighter on their way down to ground! -- alone, he was being far, far, too optimistically hopeful!
 
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