Are we part of something bigger?

Status
Not open for further replies.
A

astralliquid

Guest
<p>Can't we just accept that we are part of something bigger like the ants will never know of our exsistence and the fish in the water who cannot understand non-water world? </p><p>The universe and its theories are so fascinating but no matter how hard we try, how far we try to see, we will never ever be able to see the bigger part of our universe. The exponentially bigger part. </p><p>If there are 10 galaxies in 1 universe, there could be 10 universe in 1 whateververse. Whateververse can be 1,000,000 timese bigger. I think we will never find out the truth. &nbsp;</p><p>Just like the bacterias in the microbe world will never see beyond their pile of dung. And then there are millions of other dungs.&nbsp;</p><p>I think the last scene of Men In Black where some Aliens carrying small bag of marbles, pretty much sums it all. Our universe is just one of the many universe INSIDE ONE MARBLE.&nbsp; </p><p>Anyone share the same thought? </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Please, leave the CREATOR, GOD or Religion out of the equation.</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
 
B

BoJangles

Guest
<p style="margin-top:0cm;margin-left:0cm;margin-right:0cm" class="MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" size="3">I think this a question that philosophers have been wrestling with for many thousands of years. <span>&nbsp;</span>And there will never be an answer.<span>&nbsp; </span>I personally believe that an atom to the size of our observable universe is probably comparable to the universe to&nbsp;whatever else is out there.</font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#808080">-------------- </font></p><p align="center"><font size="1" color="#808080"><em>Let me start out with the standard disclaimer ... I am an idiot, I know almost nothing, I haven’t taken calculus, I don’t work for NASA, and I am one-quarter Bulgarian sheep dog.  With that out of the way, I have several stupid questions... </em></font></p><p align="center"><font size="1" color="#808080"><em>*** A few months blogging can save a few hours in research ***</em></font></p> </div>
 
M

MeteorWayne

Guest
Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Can't we just accept that we are part of something bigger like the ants will never know of our exsistence and the fish in the water who cannot understand non-water world? The universe and its theories are so fascinating but no matter how hard we try, how far we try to see, we will never ever be able to see the bigger part of our universe. The exponentially bigger part. If there are 10 galaxies in 1 universe, there could be 10 universe in 1 whateververse. Whateververse can be 1,000,000 timese bigger. I think we will never find out the truth. &nbsp;Just like the bacterias in the microbe world will never see beyond their pile of dung. And then there are millions of other dungs.&nbsp;I think the last scene of Men In Black where some Aliens carrying small bag of marbles, pretty much sums it all. Our universe is just one of the many universe INSIDE ONE MARBLE.&nbsp; Anyone share the same thought? &nbsp;Please, leave the CREATOR, GOD or Religion out of the equation.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Posted by astralliquid</DIV><br /><br />I accept that the universe is vast and I am a part of it. That doesn't mean I dont want to learn as much about it as I can. Are you suggesting we should stop trying to learn? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
P

Philotas

Guest
Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Can't we just accept that we are part of something bigger like the ants will never know of our exsistence and the fish in the water who cannot understand non-water world? The universe and its theories are so fascinating but no matter how hard we try, how far we try to see, we will never ever be able to see the bigger part of our universe. The exponentially bigger part. If there are 10 galaxies in 1 universe, there could be 10 universe in 1 whateververse. Whateververse can be 1,000,000 timese bigger. I think we will never find out the truth. &nbsp;Just like the bacterias in the microbe world will never see beyond their pile of dung. And then there are millions of other dungs.&nbsp;I think the last scene of Men In Black where some Aliens carrying small bag of marbles, pretty much sums it all. Our universe is just one of the many universe INSIDE ONE MARBLE.&nbsp; Anyone share the same thought? &nbsp;Please, leave the CREATOR, GOD or Religion out of the equation.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Posted by astralliquid</DIV><br /><br />That's just philosophy and not much of a frutiful exercise in this respect. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
A

astralliquid

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>That's just philosophy and not much of a frutiful exercise in this respect. <br /> Posted by Philotas</DIV></p><p>Too much of watching documentaries these days. And the feeling that no matter how much we try, we are still just that insignificant. I am asking myself will we ever know the truth before the Earth becomes cold and dead.</p><p>Yes philosophy it is. If the truth we search is only valid inside the "marble" we exist in, then what is the point of searching the truth? </p><p>I am not suggesting we stop trying, I am all for science and knowledge but I just can't help wondering philosphically when you sit there and observe a community of ants. What are we to them? Do they really care?</p><p>Sorry if this is not scientific enough to be posted here. Just hope to find people who share the same pressuring thoughts that make one feel so small.&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
 
P

Philotas

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Too much of watching documentaries these days. And the feeling that no matter how much we try, we are still just that insignificant. I am asking myself will we ever know the truth before the Earth becomes cold and dead.Yes philosophy it is. If the truth we search is only valid inside the "marble" we exist in, then what is the point of searching the truth? I am not suggesting we stop trying, I am all for science and knowledge but I just can't help wondering philosphically when you sit there and observe a community of ants. What are we to them? Do they really care?Sorry if this is not scientific enough to be posted here. Just hope to find people who share the same pressuring thoughts that make one feel so small.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Posted by astralliquid</DIV><br />Well as long as you stick to the scientific aspects of your thinking, it's appropriate here I guess. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /></p><p>But well, if we will never be capable of detecting other universes (if they actually should exist), then they are probably not relevant to us anyway.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
W

Wolf873

Guest
I like to believe, and I guess I do, that we "are" part of something much bigger and your MIB-2 analogy was pretty good. There could be many Universes outside of our own, and may also consist of intelligent life-forms like our own, who knows maybe there are more humans out there. But what troubles me is the fact that we invest billions in space and particle research, to learn more about these things. While that's all nice and good, I think it would be much more appropriate if we limit our money in those aspects and concentrate more on troubles already plaguing our world, such as famine, disease and corruption. Please don't take this the wrong, I'm all up for space exploration and learning but only after we have helped our own world significantly. I personally can't think of any good that will come out of these studies, I mean we can estimate when a giant meteor might hit our planet, but that's as far as we should invest in it imo, but in the bigger picture there's no escape from these destructive forces out there. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#3366ff"><em>The most merciful thing in this world is the human mind's inability to correlate all its contents.</em></font> </div>
 
A

astralliquid

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>But what troubles me is the fact that we invest billions in space and particle research, to learn more about these things. While that's all nice and good, I think it would be much more appropriate if we limit our money in those aspects and concentrate more on troubles already plaguing our world, such as famine, disease and corruption. <br /> Posted by Wolf873</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>In between thinking how I can turn this into a scientific discussion and reading some of the threads, your comment hit like a jackpot.</p><p>Since all science started with philosophy, what about moulding our future scientific endeavour to this : </p><p>1) We should drop the theory of Big Bang. <br /> Accept that we will never find out the truth because there is a high probabilty we are indeed living in a small MARBLE of a bigger world. Discussions like these will not head anywhere. Future exploration based on finding the "TRUTH" should be abandon. </p><p>2) We should spent on science that is ONLY relevant to building a better Earth.<br /> Use our newly save energy from #1 and start making our Earth super perfect. Channel all the saved billions to ensure a population of perfect health and perfect harmony. Share all the money across ALL COUNTRIES and help each other as one WORLD population, ONE RACE.&nbsp; </p><p>This is not saying we stop space exploration because without it, we will not find better technology to build a better world. But our science should be ruled by the objective of "SAVING OUR WORLD", rather than "FINDING WHAT IS OUT THERE".</p><p>So I share your point and if we can turn a philosophical thinking into a scientific guideline, it is all great but then again, the world don't work that way.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>
 
D

DrRocket

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;In between thinking how I can turn this into a scientific discussion and reading some of the threads, your comment hit like a jackpot.Since all science started with philosophy, what about moulding our future scientific endeavour to this : 1) We should drop the theory of Big Bang. Accept that we will never find out the truth because there is a high probabilty we are indeed living in a small MARBLE of a bigger world. Discussions like these will not head anywhere. Future exploration based on finding the "TRUTH" should be abandon. 2) We should spent on science that is ONLY relevant to building a better Earth. Use our newly save energy from #1 and start making our Earth super perfect. Channel all the saved billions to ensure a population of perfect health and perfect harmony. Share all the money across ALL COUNTRIES and help each other as one WORLD population, ONE RACE.&nbsp; This is not saying we stop space exploration because without it, we will not find better technology to build a better world. But our science should be ruled by the objective of "SAVING OUR WORLD", rather than "FINDING WHAT IS OUT THERE".So I share your point and if we can turn a philosophical thinking into a scientific guideline, it is all great but then again, the world don't work that way.&nbsp; <br />Posted by astralliquid</DIV></p><p>Your proposal is preposterous at best and a recipe for disaster at worst.</p><p>There is no reason whatever to drop the Big Bang or any other scientific theory.&nbsp; To do that is to kill curiousity.&nbsp; And without curiousity there will be no learning and none of the technical progress that can come withe learning.</p><p>We have no idea how to produce perfect health, and if we don't continue to exercise our curiousity we never will.&nbsp; And to demand that top researches pursue your interests rather than their interests will only insure that research in general is stifled.&nbsp; Progress in science comes largely from an elite few pursuing personal interests with incredible creativity.&nbsp; If you had decided a few hundred years ago to only pursue health research (and the state of human health was not particularly good at the time) then Newton might never have discovered his laws of mechanics or gravitation, you wouldn't have electricity, and many more people would live in misery and die.</p><p>Who is to determine what is relevant?&nbsp; That determination is essentially impossible to make, but politicians will be all to willing to make it anyway.&nbsp; The result would be stagnation.&nbsp; It is only the exercise of curiosity and the desire to pursue truth and find out what is out there that has gotten us this far.&nbsp; To abandon that pursuit is the hight of foolishness.&nbsp; You sound like a communist who want to take the fruits of their labor from those who produce them and distribute that wealth as he and he alone sees fit.&nbsp; Just wars have been fought&nbsp;to prevent such action, and if threatened will be fought again.</p><p>Science should not be ruled at all.&nbsp; It should be respected, pursued and exploited.&nbsp; If you try to implement your philosophy I assure you that you will have a fight on your hands.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
A

a_lost_packet_

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>.. If the truth we search is only valid inside the "marble" we exist in, then what is the point of searching the truth? I am not suggesting we stop trying, I am all for science and knowledge but I just can't help wondering philosphically when you sit there and observe a community of ants. What are we to them? Do they really care?Sorry if this is not scientific enough to be posted here. Just hope to find people who share the same pressuring thoughts that make one feel so small.&nbsp; Posted by astralliquid</DIV></p><p>But, if we were observing a community of ants and they figured it out, learned how to communicte and then all lined up to form the word "Hello" wouldn't that mean something?&nbsp; Wouldn't they have transcended their previoius capabilities?</p><p>There's no reason to stop learning simply because we know enough now to realize we will never know everything.&nbsp; Such a thing is against human nature.&nbsp; We always question, it's in our blood.&nbsp; We HAVE to.&nbsp; It's unavoidable and delightfully rewarding.&nbsp; We get a nice kick in the brain pan every time we have a Eureka moment.</p><p>Don't take that away from us.&nbsp; One day, we may be able to say "Hello" to the rest of the Universe. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>
 
K

kyle_baron

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;&nbsp;Please, leave the CREATOR, GOD or Religion out of the equation.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Posted by astralliquid</DIV></p><p>Ahhhhhhhh.........Let me think this over.&nbsp; Answer:&nbsp; NO!!!!!!&nbsp; <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif" border="0" alt="Tongue out" title="Tongue out" /></p><p>Poor baby wants an answer, which doesn't have a clear solution.&nbsp; Too bad, so sad.&nbsp; <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-tongue-out.gif" border="0" alt="Tongue out" title="Tongue out" /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>
 
W

Wolf873

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Your proposal is preposterous at best and a recipe for disaster at worst.There is no reason whatever to drop the Big Bang or any other scientific theory.&nbsp; To do that is to kill curiousity.&nbsp; And without curiousity there will be no learning and none of the technical progress that can come withe learning.We have no idea how to produce perfect health, and if we don't continue to exercise our curiousity we never will.&nbsp; And to demand that top researches pursue your interests rather than their interests will only insure that research in general is stifled.&nbsp; Progress in science comes largely from an elite few pursuing personal interests with incredible creativity.&nbsp; If you had decided a few hundred years ago to only pursue health research (and the state of human health was not particularly good at the time) then Newton might never have discovered his laws of mechanics or gravitation, you wouldn't have electricity, and many more people would live in misery and die.Who is to determine what is relevant?&nbsp; That determination is essentially impossible to make, but politicians will be all to willing to make it anyway.&nbsp; The result would be stagnation.&nbsp; It is only the exercise of curiosity and the desire to pursue truth and find out what is out there that has gotten us this far.&nbsp; To abandon that pursuit is the hight of foolishness.&nbsp; You sound like a communist who want to take the fruits of their labor from those who produce them and distribute that wealth as he and he alone sees fit.&nbsp; Just wars have been fought&nbsp;to prevent such action, and if threatened will be fought again.Science should not be ruled at all.&nbsp; It should be respected, pursued and exploited.&nbsp; If you try to implement your philosophy I assure you that you will have a fight on your hands. <br /> Posted by DrRocket</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><ol style="margin-top:0in"><li class="MsoNormal">No one said to drop the Big Bang theory or any other theory no matter how solid or far stretched it may seem. </li></ol> <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p> <ol style="margin-top:0in"><li class="MsoNormal">You&rsquo;re right, we don&rsquo;t have any idea as to how to &ldquo;perfect&rdquo; our health status but we do know how to maintain it and prolong it, yet we don&rsquo;t follow it. As for Newton&rsquo;s example, people did survive way before him before there was any electricity. Surely there wouldn&rsquo;t be no tv, no electron microscope or life saving mechanical equipment but that wouldn&rsquo;t mean humanity is doomed. </li></ol> <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p> <ol style="margin-top:0in"><li class="MsoNormal">Remember there is always a positive and negative side to everything, science has its fair share of &ldquo;dark side&rdquo; if you will. Now I agree that we can&rsquo;t completely abandon these things: it&rsquo;s unavoidable. My argument here is to limit these researches to save more money for the world itself; just thinking about billions spent on that particle accelerator upset me greatly. Think about how much that money could have helped people in Africa or in other parts of the world. Now, as I understand, you&rsquo;re saying to let the scientific mind roam free to pursue their own interest and invest our money in their &ldquo;personal&rdquo; interest even if they are for example about building better equipment to study black-holes? Too much curiosity and desire is not good, even in science. There is such a thing as sacrifice for greater good even if it means to stop pursuing our own personal interest or at very least halting them temporarily, because that seems to the problem at the very core here&hellip;it&rsquo;s &ldquo;I/me&rdquo; and not &ldquo;we/us&rdquo;. I understand someone who is a hardcore researcher, who likes to have things their way, would fee threatened or attacked if someone decided to limit their research, but that is not the point. The point is for everyone to respect everything, not just science alone. </li></ol> <p class="MsoNormal">&nbsp;</p> <p class="MsoNormal">I hope you see what I mean here. Our goal should not be to abandon these studies but only invest in those that are helpful in our current situation. Think about it, if the probe comes back from Mars, containing microorganisms, which would be astounding no doubt, but what would it be good for? Another addition for the text book for high-school or college? </p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#3366ff"><em>The most merciful thing in this world is the human mind's inability to correlate all its contents.</em></font> </div>
 
P

Philotas

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;No one said to drop the Big Bang theory or any other theory no matter how solid or far stretched it may seem. &nbsp; You&rsquo;re right, we don&rsquo;t have any idea as to how to &ldquo;perfect&rdquo; our health status but we do know how to maintain it and prolong it, yet we don&rsquo;t follow it. As for Newton&rsquo;s example, people did survive way before him before there was any electricity. Surely there wouldn&rsquo;t be no tv, no electron microscope or life saving mechanical equipment but that wouldn&rsquo;t mean humanity is doomed. &nbsp; Remember there is always a positive and negative side to everything, science has its fair share of &ldquo;dark side&rdquo; if you will. Now I agree that we can&rsquo;t completely abandon these things: it&rsquo;s unavoidable. My argument here is to limit these researches to save more money for the world itself; just thinking about billions spent on that particle accelerator upset me greatly. Think about how much that money could have helped people in Africa or in other parts of the world. Now, as I understand, you&rsquo;re saying to let the scientific mind roam free to pursue their own interest and invest our money in their &ldquo;personal&rdquo; interest even if they are for example about building better equipment to study black-holes? Too much curiosity and desire is not good, even in science. There is such a thing as sacrifice for greater good even if it means to stop pursuing our own personal interest or at very least halting them temporarily, because that seems to the problem at the very core here&hellip;it&rsquo;s &ldquo;I/me&rdquo; and not &ldquo;we/us&rdquo;. I understand someone who is a hardcore researcher, who likes to have things their way, would fee threatened or attacked if someone decided to limit their research, but that is not the point. The point is for everyone to respect everything, not just science alone. &nbsp; I hope you see what I mean here. Our goal should not be to abandon these studies but only invest in those that are helpful in our current situation. Think about it, if the probe comes back from Mars, containing microorganisms, which would be astounding no doubt, but what would it be good for? Another addition for the text book for high-school or college? &nbsp; <br />Posted by Wolf873</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;You apparently did not understand the argumentation. Without electricity and the TV-images from Africa, do you think that anyone apart from people with special interests really would care? Your argumentation shoots itself in the foot. </p><p>As a fun fact, it should be mentioned that at the CERN facility they are doing research on treating cancer with anti-protons&nbsp;for a more powerful treatment with less adverse effects.</p><p>As for life on Mars, what if the microbes&nbsp;were found&nbsp;producing a new super&nbsp;peniciline? You'll never know until you go there and seek to find out.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
H

HGlenn

Guest
Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;You apparently did not understand the argumentation. Without electricity and the TV-images from Africa, do you think that anyone apart from people with special interests really would care? Your argumentation shoots itself in the foot. As a fun fact, it should be mentioned that at the CERN facility they are doing research on treating cancer with anti-protons&nbsp;for a more powerful treatment with less adverse effects.As for life on Mars, what if the microbes&nbsp;were found&nbsp;producing a new super&nbsp;peniciline? You'll never know until you go there and seek to find out. <br />Posted by Philotas</DIV><br /><font size="1">'We' are spending billions exploring space. What if 'we' were spending this money to discover the vast unknown of our own planet - Earth. We know more about the moon than we know about the ocean depths. The 'cures' for all diseases are right here on our planet. Some diseases affect so few people the drug companies won't spend money researching them. If a 'cure' won't make the drug companies millions +++ in profits, they don't want anything to do with it. Look what happened a few years ago when an Australian doctor proved beyond a doubt that most stomach ulcers were caused by bacteria and a couple of weeks of cheap antibiotics could cure most. The drug companies (which produced a 'treatment' costing hundreds of dollars a month and not curing but alleviating the symptoms) &nbsp;stalled the research and the publication of&nbsp; research findings just to protect their profits. It costs the drug companies NOTHING to produce new drugs. They fund research (tax write-off) by universities and if anything promising comes off it they own the exclusive rights and control the price. The governments won't do anything because they are bought by the many companies (also tax write-offs). No company wants to find a cure for any disease until they can milk every last cent of profit from the disease, no matter the cost in lives and misery. It is nice to know about the universe around us but why not put our own 'house' in order before we intrude on our galactic 'neighbours?</font>
 
W

Wolf873

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;You apparently did not understand the argumentation. <strong>Without electricity and the TV-images from Africa, do you think that anyone apart from people with special interests really would care?</strong> Your argumentation shoots itself in the foot. As a fun fact, it should be mentioned that at the CERN facility they are doing research on treating cancer with anti-protons&nbsp;for a more powerful treatment with less adverse effects.As for life on Mars, what if the microbes&nbsp;were found&nbsp;producing a new super&nbsp;peniciline? You'll never know until you go there and seek to find out.Posted by Philotas</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>What I only meant to say was that lack of electricity is not the end of the world, you seem to have taken it ouf of context. But tell me even though there is television how many people have really reached into their pockets and helped them, it still is all done by people with special interest. And there are more ways for getting information across, people did that back in the days so its not out of the realm of possibility. And as for using products from alien life-form, don't you think that might raise more ethical questions as would people really allow themselves to be treated with alien material?&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#3366ff"><em>The most merciful thing in this world is the human mind's inability to correlate all its contents.</em></font> </div>
 
P

Philotas

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>'We' are spending billions exploring space. What if 'we' were spending this money to discover the vast unknown of our own planet - Earth. We know more about the moon than we know about the ocean depths. The 'cures' for all diseases are right here on our planet. Some diseases affect so few people the drug companies won't spend money researching them. If a 'cure' won't make the drug companies millions +++ in profits, they don't want anything to do with it. Look what happened a few years ago when an Australian doctor proved beyond a doubt that most stomach ulcers were caused by bacteria and a couple of weeks of cheap antibiotics could cure most. The drug companies (which produced a 'treatment' costing hundreds of dollars a month and not curing but alleviating the symptoms) &nbsp;stalled the research and the publication of&nbsp; research findings just to protect their profits. It costs the drug companies NOTHING to produce new drugs. They fund research (tax write-off) by universities and if anything promising comes off it they own the exclusive rights and control the price. The governments won't do anything because they are bought by the many companies (also tax write-offs). No company wants to find a cure for any disease until they can milk every last cent of profit from the disease, no matter the cost in lives and misery. It is nice to know about the universe around us but why not put our own 'house' in order before we intrude on our galactic 'neighbours? <br />Posted by HGlenn</DIV></p><p>I agree wholehartedly that that's money well spent, but medicine is not [directly]&nbsp;where society has had its benefits from space exploration.. Of course we should explore the Earth more, but we need a balance. If an asteroid should crash into earth and send us into&nbsp;a new ice age, we're almost&nbsp;back to scratch.</p><p>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;What I only meant to say was that lack of electricity is not the end of the world, you seem to have taken it ouf of context. But tell me even though there is television how many people have really reached into their pockets and helped them, it still is all done by people with special interest. And there are more ways for getting information across, people did that back in the days so its not out of the realm of possibility. And as for using products from alien life-form, don't you think that might raise more ethical questions as would people really allow themselves to be treated with alien material?&nbsp; <br />Posted by Wolf873</DIV></p><p>It's all about a matter of effiency (think just how much cheaper and more reliable and so much&nbsp;better&nbsp;you can patch up people&nbsp;with modern techonology; it's not at all comparable).&nbsp;And I don't know about your country, but in mine, millions of $$ are sent southwards aided by live television campaigns (volunteers going from door to door&nbsp;gathering money); to illustrate that TV does indeed help; directly, even.</p><p>But the main point is of course that it, along with the Internet, it helps immensely spreading messages. News papers does not at all give the same impressions (and you actually have to <em>read</em> them).</p><p>And to go back in they day as you did, they were in fact too busy colonizing Africa to give any aid. </p><p>To quote something you said earlier:&nbsp;</p><p><em>&nbsp;I think it would be much more appropriate if we limit our money in those aspects and concentrate more on troubles already plaguing our world, such as famine, disease and corruption.</em></p><p>Where would medicine be today without computers? X-rays? Electricity? The microscope?&nbsp;Medical advance is 100% dependant on advance in other areas of science.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
T

trumptor

Guest
<p>I agree. I think we should all start doing what is best for us first. We should all plant gardens in our back yards and plant potatoes there (because potatoes are filling and lettuce isn't)</p><p>Next, we should elect some people that will go around and pick up half the potatoes from each families back yards and haul them to the nearest airport.</p><p>&nbsp;Then, we have millions of pilots that carry that food around the world and land at various airports.</p><p>&nbsp;Next we have people that walk around different areas of the world and find hungry people and then tell them to wait right there until he/she goes and brings them food.</p><p>&nbsp;Then they go and get the food and drive it to the people that are hungry. Viola! End of hunger problem.</p><p>All the extra potatoes that nobody eats can be fermented to produce vodka and can be used in the cars and planes as fuel to deliver all the food.</p><p>Now when we solve this problem, I vote next year to have everyone try and find every last mosquito and kill it. If we could push them to extinction it would get rid of a very annoying and potentially lifethreatening pest.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font color="#0000ff">______________</font></em></p><p><em><font color="#0000ff">Caution, I may not know what I'm talking about.</font></em></p> </div>
 
W

Wolf873

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I agree wholehartedly that that's money well spent, but medicine is not [directly]&nbsp;where society has had its benefits from space exploration.. Of course we should explore the Earth more, but we need a balance. If an asteroid should crash into earth and send us into&nbsp;a new ice age, we're almost&nbsp;back to scratch.It's all about a matter of effiency (think just how much cheaper and more reliable and so much&nbsp;better&nbsp;you can patch up people&nbsp;with modern techonology; it's not at all comparable).&nbsp;And I don't know about your country, but in mine, millions of $$ are sent southwards aided by live television campaigns (volunteers going from door to door&nbsp;gathering money); to illustrate that TV does indeed help; directly, even.But the main point is of course that it, along with the Internet, it helps immensely spreading messages. News papers does not at all give the same impressions (and you actually have to read them).And to go back in they day as you did, they were in fact too busy colonizing Africa to give any aid. To quote something you said earlier:&nbsp;&nbsp;I think it would be much more appropriate if we limit our money in those aspects and concentrate more on troubles already plaguing our world, such as famine, disease and corruption.Where would medicine be today without computers? X-rays? Electricity? The microscope?&nbsp;Medical advance is 100% dependant on advance in other areas of science. <br /> Posted by Philotas</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>And again I have to clear it up. What I said was only an example and a point that humanity is not doomed without electricity...just a point, because earlier post made it seem like we're dead withouth that "particular" advancement. I hope that clears it up, it was never an actual argument about going back to the good old days. My main point was to limit our money in things that could actually be helpful, maybe creating more efficient way of communicating for an example, we already have that but there's always room for improvement. Investing in even more powerful microscopes or machines that could replace almost all missing limbs. Electricity was a solid invention or an idea that one scientist pursued because it meant that we could actually benefit from it, it was more of a realistic pursuit. To conclude and hopefully to clarify everything, my "opinion" is to halt deep space programs or research of particle accelerators for the time being and have that money be invested in devastated and famine plagued countries. After we have improved humanity's conditions we can continue with these projects.&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#3366ff"><em>The most merciful thing in this world is the human mind's inability to correlate all its contents.</em></font> </div>
 
D

DrRocket

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;No one said to drop the Big Bang theory or any other theory no matter how solid or far stretched it may seem.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Posted by Wolf873</DIV></p><p>On the contrary I was responding to the words of astralliquid which were precisely</p><p>"&nbsp;We should drop the theory of Big Bang".</p><p>More to the point, why are you responding as though my post was in response to you?&nbsp; Do you simply agree with astralliquid or are you astralliquid under another user name -- a sock puppet ?</p><p>. <br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
T

trumptor

Guest
<p>Seriously though, how can you prevent someone from learning about something they desire to know about? And you never know what type of information can be learned to help us out right here on Earth. The more we learn about other planets, the more it can help us understand our own world. For example, the discovery that Mars and I think it was Jupiter(I may be wrong) are going through global warming as well may suggest that the problem may not be entirely our doing.</p><p>&nbsp;Also, the more we learn about the sun the better we may prepare ourselves for solar flareups. Our drive to send rockets into space has resulted in satellites that make satellite TV possible as well as the GPS systems that are so popular now. There are a great many things that have enhanced the standard of living from every field and to try and stop our learning of any of them seems a very strange concept to me.</p><p>We spend very little on NASA compared to what we spend on military. Can you imagine if the world got along better and greatly reduced military spending, how much could be done for the less fortunate? There are a great many reasons that there are starving people out there, but because we spend money on space exploration is not one of them. There are enough potatoes thrown away by the producers that do not fit the "round" enough shape consumers buy at the grocery store to feed the world, and that's just potatoes in the US! There are major inefficiencies in managing many things in the world that could be done better. It would be better to go and try to tackle some of those culprits and let learning flourish. I believe learning is becoming less and less respected without your help as it is, lol.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font color="#0000ff">______________</font></em></p><p><em><font color="#0000ff">Caution, I may not know what I'm talking about.</font></em></p> </div>
 
W

Wolf873

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>On the contrary I was responding to the words of astralliquid which were precisely"&nbsp;We should drop the theory of Big Bang".More to the point, why are you resonding as though my post was in response to you?&nbsp; Do you simply agree with astralliquid or are you astralliquid under another user name -- a sock puppet ?. <br /> Posted by DrRocket</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>I am merely taking part in the conversation, sorry if you didn't like it, and I don't completely agree with everything he said, but I understand that he means well. Lol <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" />, no: one user name is enough for me, I don't think appearing as two persons is the right way to get your point across.<br /> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#3366ff"><em>The most merciful thing in this world is the human mind's inability to correlate all its contents.</em></font> </div>
 
A

astralliquid

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;I am merely taking part in the conversation, sorry if you didn't like it, and I don't completely agree with everything he said, but I understand that he means well. Lol , no: one user name is enough for me, I don't think appearing as two persons is the right way to get your point across. <br />Posted by Wolf873</DIV></p><p>Hi.. I am astralliquid.. I am not him..he is not me...lol..</p><p>In my context, dropping the theory does not necessary means stopping space exploration at all. It means going into space with the intention to find the next asteriod that wil hit us, the cure for diseases and everthing related to building a better Earth. <br /><br />The time, energy, resource and money saved from even thinking of intergalatic, aliens, expanding universe, etc should all be channel to the potato distribution analogy by one poster.<br /><br />There will and always be overlapping argument that if we don't study what is black hole or the universe, we will not find solutions to human health but the point here is, we should have the concept saving Earth first from scientist to politicians, from general public to&nbsp;the childrens around the world. <br /><br />Hence I will still stick to, yes "Drop the Big Bang Theory" to&nbsp;draw the line clearer for this discussion.&nbsp;Just take this discussion to&nbsp;a very macro&nbsp;level. Imagine there is no such curiousity instilled in&nbsp;human race at all to begin with. Would&nbsp;we be doing and studying things differently? Or&nbsp;willEearth&nbsp;be a&nbsp;better place&nbsp;much earlier&nbsp;because of our focused effort?</p><p>Anyways, please don't&nbsp;make the tone of this thread like an arguement, no&nbsp;one will be right, we are all just trying to cure our philopsohical mind and have a nice chat.<br /><br />&nbsp;</p>
 
P

Philotas

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>And again I have to clear it up. What I said was only an example and a point that humanity is not doomed without electricity...just a point, because earlier post made it seem like we're dead withouth that "particular" advancement. I hope that clears it up, it was never an actual argument about going back to the good old days. My main point was to limit our money in things that could actually be helpful, maybe creating more efficient way of communicating for an example, we already have that but there's always room for improvement. Investing in even more powerful microscopes or machines that could replace almost all missing limbs.Electricity was a solid invention or an idea that one scientist pursued because it meant that we could actually benefit from it, it was more of a realistic pursuit. To conclude and hopefully to clarify everything, my "opinion" is to halt deep space programs or research of particle accelerators for the time being and have that money be invested in devastated and famine plagued countries. After we have improved humanity's conditions we can continue with these projects.</p><p>Posted by Wolf873</DIV></p><p>Yet what appears useless can have&nbsp;a greater use than what one imagine; and electricity is an&nbsp;excellent example. Even the ancient Greeks knew about the phenomena; but why would anyone spend money on doing research on something so apparently useless? </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
W

Wolf873

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Yet what appears useless can have&nbsp;a greater use than what one imagine; and electricity is an&nbsp;excellent example. Even the ancient Greeks knew about the phenomena; but why would anyone spend money on doing research on something so apparently useless? <br /> Posted by Philotas</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Quiet true. But the thing is, these space and particle accelerator research projects are long term programs, it will require quiet some time to get to know the collected data and then come up with ways to use that data or info to actually help humans. And all those times, it will require many amounts of $$$. So nothing personal against all of this, but sometimes it just upsets me that all of this could have gone to helping people who are here, now, need our help now. I acknowledge that what I'm saying is improbable but it surely is not impossible. But we all have our opinion now don't we. Well, it was fun while it lasted, but I don't want to go into a heated debate.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#3366ff"><em>The most merciful thing in this world is the human mind's inability to correlate all its contents.</em></font> </div>
 
M

MeteorWayne

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;Quiet true. But the thing is, these space and particle accelerator research projects are long term programs, it will require quiet some time to get to know the collected data and then come up with ways to use that data or info to actually help humans. And all those times, it will require many amounts of $$$. So nothing personal against all of this, but sometimes it just upsets me that all of this could have gone to helping people who are here, now, need our help now. I acknowledge that what I'm saying is improbable but it surely is not impossible. But we all have our opinion now don't we. Well, it was fun while it lasted, but I don't want to go into a heated debate. <br />Posted by Wolf873</DIV><br /><br />This conversation is really philisophical/polital. Ask the Astronomer isn't really the best place, IMHO, but as long as we're driving off the rails here.</p><p>It has been shown time and time again that if space or science has it's budget cut, those cuts do not end up in the places you suggest. Instead, the money is most often completely wasted. Now if the world's political systems would put the resources in the places you suggest, I could almost agree to a point. However, what it usually does is line somebody's pockets, so I'd rather fight to preserve some of our expenditures for science.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ASK THE COMMUNITY

Latest posts