As Expansion continues, Time speeds up, True or False?

[Gibsense]

As mass density increases within a given volume, the gravitational field strengthens, and this has a direct impact on the flow of time. According to Einstein's theory, time runs more slowly in stronger gravitational fields and more quickly in deep space.

As the Reference frame for the whole Universe is diluted (the gravitational field is weakened), the speed of time increases. True or False?

 

[Catastrophe]

Google Search

Cat

 

[Gibsense]

Thank you for the reference, but I would like to clarify my question: Does that principle from your link apply to the universe as a whole? If it does, then time in the universe must be speeding up—unless additional material is being injected or created within the universe to maintain or increase its density.

 

[Catastrophe]

As I have posted elsewhere,

Page 3 - Definition of Universe requires clarification, to enable discussion

Page 3 - Seeking answers about space? Join the Space community: the premier source of space exploration, innovation, and astronomy news, chronicling (and celebrating) humanity's ongoing expansion across the final frontier.

forums.space.com

I do not believe that "The Universe" has any real meaning. "observable universe"s are (by definition) all that anyone (any observer anywhere, any time) can observe. There is no specific universe anywhere without an observer. This is circuitous. Asking whether there can be a universe without an observer is therefore either a philosophical question or semantic nonsense.

It comes back to the flatland (observable) universes - a (D + 1) observer (such as humans) could see any number of flatland universes (if they existed). "The Universe" would require an observer with infinite sense range over time, which I believe is nonsense. Hence the philosophical aspect.

Cat

 

[Catastrophe]

Thank you for the reference, but I would like to clarify my question: Does that principle from your link apply to the universe as a whole? If it does, then time in the universe must be speeding up—unless additional material is being injected or created within the universe to maintain or increase its density.

Beyond my post #4, I do not understand your question.

Cat

 

[Classical Motion]

The “evidence” of expansion is very old. The oldest evidence. For all we know, the “universe” might have expanded long ago, and ceased expanding long ago.

It might have reversed and be contracting now.

At those rates and the speed of light, it might get contracted before we can see it.

The present state of this cosmos is impossible to determine.

 

[Catastrophe]

CM, that request was directed to Gibsense.

Regarding #6, you state:

The present state of this cosmos is impossible to determine.

By "this cosmos", I assume that you mean "The Universe", not some "observed universe".
Is that correct?

In other words, I take it not to disagree with my suggestion, that such information could only be understood by a being able to appreciate the influence of "a higher dimension".
Is that correct?

Cat

 

[billslugg]

The gravitational constant is not affected by the density of mass in the universe, it stands on its own. The constant is determined by a torsion balance, which performs independently of local gravity.

 

[Classical Motion]

Cat, my comment was a general comment in response to the title of the thread. And the premise of the first post.

The terms in quotes are so that they can fit different contexts and still relay the general idea.

I believe the observable fades into the unobservable to define the universe and can also be called the cosmos. Everything out there, seen or not. There’s no difference for me for I don’t think space has a boundary. To expand or contract.

Didn’t mean to interrupt or object to you.

 

[billslugg]

The Universe is everything there is. This would include areas beyond the visible edge, alternate dimensions, hidden universes, alternate realities, whatever.

 

[Catastrophe]

The Universe is everything there is. This would include areas beyond the visible edge, alternate dimensions, hidden universes, alternate realities, whatever.

billslugg, Yes, but . . . . . . "everything there is "according to whom?

 

[Classical Motion]

I think the unobservable universe is just like the observable universe. There is no edge. Space can not be bound, squeezed or stretched. No demeans or dragons, No alternatives and no suppositions or imaginations.

The motion of matter in space is very restricted and limited, and would be familiar everywhere.

 

[Catastrophe]

I have a definition of science as:

the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation, experimentation, and the testing of theories against the evidence obtained.

and scientific method as:

a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.

Further:

In science, guesswork, or more precisely, the initial formulation of hypotheses, plays a crucial role in the process of scientific discovery. These initial guesses, even if not entirely accurate, provide a starting point for experimentation and investigation, guiding scientists towards developing more refined theories.

But what happens when these hypotheeses cannot produce any starting point for experimentation and investigation in order to develop more refined theories?

I am not criticising science. I have a B.Sc. (Hons), and the whole of my professional working life was based in science - surfactant science in particular. My spare time interests have also been science based - including Cosmology and Astronomy, in addition to General Semantics. I am just interested in subjects like the Big Bang and questions such as singularities and expansion.

Cat

 

[Gibsense]

The gravitational constant is not affected by the density of mass in the universe, it stands on its own. The constant is determined by a torsion balance, which performs independently of local gravity.

• The gravitational constant ( G ) describes the effect of mass on other masses in terms of gravitational attraction.
• It is a fundamental constant, meaning its value does not change depending on the size of the masses interacting—it applies equally to all objects, large or small.
• Of course, the 'Force' between masses will be determined by the size of the mass involved
  
  
• Mass Density (Not ( G )) Shapes Time Evolution. General relativity tells us that strong gravitational fields slow time. In our evolving universe, space is expanding (due to dark energy?), causing regions with lower mass density to experience faster time progression than dense areas.
  
  
• My question suggests that the universe, as a whole, is expanding (without additional mass added) and lowering mass density and therefore the 'proper time ' (Cosmic Time) is speeding up.

PS! In other posts, I may argue that the mass density will vary due to added mass by specific causes and therefore time for large areas may progress at different rates - but that;s a different post!

 

[Greenlight]

I believe that it is so.
Now consider the rate.
I believe it to be an exponential.
Now consider the age of the universe.
It could be the square root of our current best guess since our best guess assumes time is linear.

 

[billslugg]

My question suggests that the universe, as a whole, is expanding (without additional mass added) and lowering mass density and therefore the 'proper time ' (Cosmic Time) is speeding up.

Proper time is the time each observer reads on their own watch.
Coordinate time is what an external observer sees on that watch.
No amount of change anywhere in the universe can change the rate at which each person's proper time moves.
Only coordinate time is seen to change with mass, energy, speed, etc.

 

[G_x0a]

I think the concept of time is an abstract quantity, determined by movement in space.
Since it is abstract, let's give it an absolute meaning so that it can encompass all other cosmological theories (if any).
In this case, it is wrong.

 

[billslugg]

I think the concept of time is an abstract quantity, determined by movement in space.
Since it is abstract, let's give it an absolute meaning so that it can encompass all other cosmological theories (if any).
In this case, it is wrong.

Yes, time is an abstract quantity.
Yes, time cannot exist unless at least two particles exist and are moving relative to each other. This is the simplest motion, simplest clock.
There can be no absolute time for the whole universe.
Every observer has a different time.
A single absolute time could only happen if the speed of light was infinite.
In this case time would stop.
So, we are stuck with everyone having a different time.

 

[Gibsense]

Proper time is the time each observer reads on their own watch.
Coordinate time is what an external observer sees on that watch.
No amount of change anywhere in the universe can change the rate at which each person's proper time moves.
Only coordinate time is seen to change with mass, energy, speed, etc.

• Thought experiment: An object with no deviation from a radial direction as the universe expands has no spatial movement.
• It only moves in time (It is spatially stationary). It's proper time = Cosmic Time. If the universe's circumference is expanding, then its radius is getting longer.
• If the radius is 'monitored' time, and the 3d space circumference is speeding up, then the radius that monitors time is speeding up.
• That means proper time is speeding up. We could not notice as a second is a second (the only sense of time we have. (we think).

 

[Gibsense]

Yes, time is an abstract quantity.
Yes, time cannot exist unless at least two particles exist and are moving relative to each other. This is the simplest motion, simplest clock.
There can be no absolute time for the whole universe.
Every observer has a different time.
A single absolute time could only happen if the speed of light was infinite.
In this case time would stop.
So, we are stuck with everyone having a different time.

1. Time is not abstract to a physicist e.g. spacetime
2. You imply time is only a measure of movement e.g. 2 particles are needed. This is like suggesting space is only a tape measure
3. Cosmic Time is a measure of absolute time e.g. Age of the universe
4. Only observers moving relative to each other have different time readings. Only observers moving spatially relative to radial expansion
5. The speed of light is the speed with which the radius increases: 1 second = 1 light second. Statement that light has to be infinite is incorrect in 4d space.
6. Yes if everyone were in motion relatively

 

[Greenlight]

• That means proper time is speeding up. We could not notice as a second is a second (the only sense of time we have. (we think).

but we have a way to look back in time, and so we do notice. The further the distance we look the further back in time we see. Because the speed of light is not infinite. It manifests as redshift.

 

[Classical Motion]

Only one particle is needed for time. All particles are in a state of perpetual motion. And have a constant length, just like light. And a constant internal speed of c, just like light. And they produce/consume a constant rate of time. That’s why time can be rated.

And a constant length, is why velocity can be rated. Both constants, time and length, can be rated. But remain constant. A constant can only be varied with rate.

Modern consensus doesn’t see this. They believe math equations are discernment.

Both time and length are quantum, cosmic common, and do not change. Making all motion the way that it is. Common everywhere all the time. Time has no distance boundary. Only motion velocity has boundary, not time. All motion past, present and future are locked with the same time.

An absolute measurement only has two circumstances. One is a still point in space. And that’s impossible. The other, is moving and measuring in formation with the dynamic. That motion needs to be in phase, meaning no distance displacement, and no angle displacement.

All other measurements are tilted with distance/angle displacement…. during the measurement.

And on top of these aspects, this doesn’t consider the inertia reaction to measurement, with is another ignored interference to our high rate measurements. Like light. And cosmic rays.

This interference not only leads to miss-understanding of the dynamic, but give false energy level transfers.

When you radiate matter, and measure the energy increase of that matter, only half of that energy came from the radiation, the other half came from the reactance, the inertia, to that radiation. And equal energy. Matter matches the stimulus.

Matter is magic. And full of energy. We should look deeper and deeper til we see what is is.

The answers are down deep, very far off. And both are galaxies away. Far. Far away.

Just as deep as far.

A measurement paradox. In and out have the same distance. Too far.

 

[Greenlight]

Only one particle is needed for time.

If time originates from matter, then we should be looking for dark energy in the atom, not in space. It would be a perpetual loss of energy instead of a gain, which makes much more sense logically.

 

[Ignat]

The coordinate system is a tool for exploring space. Time is a tool for studying the duration of processes in space. Since processes can occur at different speeds in each system, the time in each system is different from the time in other systems.Coordinate and time systems do not physically exist in the material world, they are just tools invented by man.