ASAP endorses Ares 1

[SpacexULA]

You're absolutely right about Orbital and they are the place to go. But their LAS design has also been an integral module of Orion since day one. It's taken 3 years of planning just to get to this March's PA-1 test. If Dragon is only now thinking of how to add that capability, they are years behind where they need to be to meet the Orion IOC date, which is still on schedule. At any rate, they are still not equivalent vehicles.

Again, I point out the suggested compromise. NASA will have its Orion capsule done long before Space X could have its Dragon capsule done... and Space X will have its Falcon 9 rocket done long before NASA could have its Ares-1 rocket done.

..... tada!

Falcon 9 does not have the lift to carry Orion. Ares 1 has used all of it's margin up on Pogo mitigation and roll control. Area 1 can't carry an exploration class Orion to orbit, it can barely carry an ISS class Orion to orbit.

Elon Musk has acknowledged a 2 1/2 year wait for a manned launch on Falcon. 2 was his earlier estimate.

This time next year likely Ares 1 will be another Venture Star affair for NASA, and SpaceX will be explaining how an off optimal 1st and 2nd launch are successes.

 

[neutrino78x]

We do until someone decides it's time to go somewhere else. In the future interplanetary travel will be in ships that never leave space so until we figure out how to build a transporter device we will need vehicles to get us to and from LEO or LMO or LTO (low titan orbit). I still favor a lifting body vehicle that can transport up to 6 crew members and land horizontally on a runway. Launch either vertically or from under the wing of a mother ship. Capsules should be reserved as emergency escape craft only from my viewpoint.

I totally agree with you, spaceplane concept (like X-33 or SpaceShipOne) is where it is at.

Although, I don't see why it has to take so much time to develop a capsule that can go on top of a rocket? Isn't that 50 year old technology?

--Brian

 

[menellom]

Falcon 9 does not have the lift to carry Orion.

The heavy variant of the Falcon 9 will be able to match, if not exceed the lift capability of the Ares I (30K vs the Ares I's 25K). Space X has a launch test for the Falcon 9 in early March.

 

[vulture4]

Part of the difficulty with Orion is that it was simply not designed for ISS logistics. It was designed to provide crew launch and entry capability for lunar and Mars flight. With this mission having proven unaffordable, Orion was redesignated for ISS logistics, a mission for which it is poorly suited. Orion is considerably heavier (21.5MT) than required for ISS support,. Dragon was designed specifically for ISS support; it has an empty mass of about 4MT with a total cargo capacity of 6MT, considerably lighter than Orion, however Dragon can carry up to seven crew. There is no rationale for using Orion on the Falcon, and therefore no need for the Falcon heavy. With Orion limited to LEO for the forseable future, Orion/Ares capabilities duplicate those of Dragon/Falcon at much higher cost. Per seat, Orion/Ares is more expensive than the Space Shuttle is now, and Orion isn't even operational yet. The ASAP appears loyal to the program of record to the point of labeling both Shuttle and SpaceX as unsafe. Why they don't label Soyuz as unsafe as well I cannot fathom, but this leaves no other strategy but the Program of Record.

But for anyone who cares to look carefully at the actual designs, the logical strategy would be to cancel Ares and Orion; this would free up funds for accelerating COTS-D and restarting the advanced technology demonstrator programs that might eventually make human spaceflight practical. We could even extend the Shuttle although that possibility has just about been crushed without meaningful debate. Finally, there would be funds for a host of projects in ground-based research, aeronautics, and unmanned satelites that will actually provide practical benefits to America, something that seems to be beneath the notice of the lofty ASAP.

 

[docm]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifwFa5DtIps[/youtube]

 

[EarthlingX]

Ugliness of this report is in another perceived authority misleading general, not so space interested public, to believe, contrary to the available facts, in some politically induced 'untruth'.
With a usual short memory span related to space matters in the general public, last and the loudest claim is the most true.
Similar to a 'successful Ares I' launch. (puking icon)

Let's hope it doesn't finish like that.