Assisted Space Launch Systems Are Needed Badly!

[north_star_rising]

JurgenS: ">lol north_star, are you forgetting that neither spaceship one or the X-15 never went into orbit?<"<br /><br /> JurgenS, Firstly I did not bring this up!, holmec, did!<br /><br />Secondly, I told holmec this would be an entire new thread, for that very reason!<br /><br />

 

[najab]

><i>But the X-33 was close to orbiting anyway.</i><p>No. No it wasn't. Not even close. In fact, the X-15 was closer to orbital flight than the X-33 ever would have been. Thinking about it, so was ve7rkt's 1975 Honda Civic!</p>

 

[north_star_rising]

Recently a Senior NASA Administrator in a private conversation in Washington, D.C. with the Chairman & CEO of the International Space Agency, advised the International Space Agency to make a formal submission to NASA Exploration Directorate regarding its work and proposal for the International Space Plane (ISP) Program and International Advanced Ground Based Assisted Launch System. This unnamed Senior NASA Administrator did mention that he thought this effort was interesting and needed, and that he supported such an endeavor.<br /><br />This is indeed a good development, and shows that a change in NASA thinking and culture is occurring, and that NASA is more willing to look outside its walls for good ideas, and more willing to lend support to non-NASA endeavors.<br /><br />If this is indeed a real change, and interest on the part of a Senior NASA Official, there my be hope for NASA, and the future of Manned Space Exploration and Efforts.<br /><br />In response to this direct suggestion and invitation by a Senior NASA Administrator, the International Space Agency is now putting together a formal proposal, which should be presented to NASA Exploration Directorate, and Senior NASA Officials with in the next week or 2.<br /><br />A new era of space exploration and efforts, may indeed, be at hand!?<br />

 

[henryhallam]

Thanks for getting back with those details from Dr Maker - he certainly seems well qualified.<br /><br />A mach 1 track is definitely technically feasible, though I still maintain that construction and maintenance costs would be quite high. The whole concept is unprecedented so initial design, development and construction would realistically end up being a LOT more than $1B.<br /><br />But all it can do is add a small amount of payload capability to an existing launcher, be it SSTO or staged. Mach 1 is nowhere near enough to replace a first stage entirely from a staged design. Perhaps the ramp could provide that little extra bit of margin needed to make something like the Venturestar flyable, but I honestly don't see much point. With or without the ramp, SSTO requires a mass ratio of at least 7 or 8:1, so you can't lift any half-decent payload.<br /><br />IF the flight rate were high enough to make a ramp worthwhile, I think the money would be much better spent on making a two-stage rocket with a reusable first stage that is cheap and fast to refurbish. Remember it's skilled labour that costs money, not mass production.

 

[north_star_rising]

If you look at the present Leadership of the Growing International Space Agency Global Team, you will see the Senior Associate Director is the President of a National Engineering Firm, which builds very large Civil & Government projects.<br />http://www.international-space-agency.net/jerald_schneider_biography.html<br /><br />http://www.cjseng.com<br /><br />Building such a ramp up the side of a mountain is not going to be as hard or as expensive as you think!<br /><br />The cost of building such a Ground Based Assisted Launch Facility and Infrastructure, would be the same as the cost of 2 or 3 shuttle launches! And can be used many hundreds of times, or many more with updates and upgrades.<br /><br />And the system can launch many RLV/SSTO vehicles in a single day.<br /><br />Also once an orbital refueling capability is established, RLV/SSTO vehicles can carry only enough fuel to get to semi-stable orbit, refuel, and move to a higher more stable orbit, or change in orbital plane.<br /><br />Also, an exciting development in just the last day has come about! <br /><br />A Space Minister, of a Country to be left unnamed at this point for Diplomatic Reasons, has Officially Joined the International Space Agency Board of Directors, and is the First Government to Formally Recognize and Join the International Space Agency! This was the result of the International Space Agencies participation in the IEOS conference in Washington, D.C. on May 9th and 10th. More Governments are also soon to join ISA!<br />http://www.strategies.org/IEOS_PUblicWorkshop/ContinuingDialogue.html<br />

 

[north_star_rising]

najaB, ve7rkt's 1975 Honda Civic flying around, sure to get a few UFO reports! "LOL"

 

[north_star_rising]

JurgenS, Pegasus is a good vehicle, but lacks scale or size to be useful for more than weapons technology for orbital kill vehicles, or very small orbital payload capability.

 

[north_star_rising]

JurgenS, the Falcon Program is strictly MILITARY and would never be allowed for Civil or Commercial use!<br /><br />********************************************<br /><br />Cesaroni Technology Incorporated (US) has recently been awarded a Phase I development contract for the USAF/DARPA FALCON Program. CTI US teamed with prime contractor Exquadrum of Victorville California to design an advanced hybrid rocket. The vehicle named "Kestrel", will be designed to deliver a 1,000 pound payload into low earth orbit.<br /><br />The project is part of the Force Application and Launch from the Continental United States, or FALCON, program. Task 1, Phase I on the small launch vehicle includes developing conceptual designs, performance predictions, cost objectives and development and demonstration plans. <br />Nine contractors have begun work on Phase I and include:<br /><br />Air Launch LLC, Reno Nevada<br />Andrews Space Inc., Seattle Washington<br />Exquadrum Inc., Victorville California<br />KT Engineering, Huntsville Alabama<br />Lockheed Martin Corp., New Orleans Louisiana<br />Microcosm Inc., El Segundo California<br />Orbital Sciences Corp., Dulles Virginia<br />Schafer Corp., Chelmsford Massachusetts<br />Space Exploration Technologies, El Segundo California<br /><br />Three more contractors have also begun work on the phase's Task 2, hypersonic weapon systems. This includes the common aero vehicle, the enhanced common aero vehicle and the hypersonic cruise vehicle. <br /><br />The CAV will be an unpowered, maneuverable, hypersonic glide vehicle capable of carrying about 1,000 pounds of munitions with a range of about 3,000 nautical miles. The ECAV will offer greater range and improved maneuverability. The reusable HCV will be an independent aircraft capable of taking off from a conventional military runway and striking targets as far as 9,000 nautical miles away in less than two hours. <br /><br />The goal of the joint Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency and Air Force program is to dev

 

[ve7rkt]

<font color="yellow">>But the X-33 was close to orbiting anyway.<br /><br />No. No it wasn't. Not even close. In fact, the X-15 was closer to orbital flight than the X-33 ever would have been. Thinking about it, so was ve7rkt's 1975 Honda Civic! </font><br /><br />Well, actually, yes. For some reason, this following record is missing on astronautix.com, but I'm sure that's a temporary oversight:<br /><br /><b>1975 HONDA CIVIC 1200</b><br /><br />Economy car. Family: Civic. Country: Japan/Canada. Status: Hardware, temporarily retired.<br /><br />Manufacturer: Honda Japan. <i>Launches:</i> 1. <i>Failures:</i> 1. <i>Success Rate:</i> 0.00% pct. <i>First Launch Date:</i> ~1976. <i>Last Launch Date:</i> ~1976. <i>Launch data is:</i> complete. <i>Apogee:</i> 1m.<br /><br />I inherited this car from my dad, who took it rally driving. On one occasion on a rally down in California, dad and his friend tore off the start line, down a straight section, and then up off a short jump.<br /><br />While the car was airborne, the accessory belt frayed, and a strand whipped around, cutting the distributor wires. When your engine dies it usually slows to a stop as the car's intertia keeps it turning; with the wheels off the ground, there was no reason for that to happen, so the engine stopped instantly. Given that the car was in gear, so did the wheels.<br /><br />Then the car hit the ground at 50mph / 80km/h. The engine was stopped, the wheels suddenly needed to be moving, and caught between them, the transmission more or less shattered. The expedition into town to get replacement parts found that they couldn't get parts before the rally moved on, so they spent the parts money on beer instead.<br /><br />Canadian officials decided that the Black Blant series of sounding rockets was a superior means of lofting suborbital payloads, and cancelled any further Civic flights. The vehicle is currently parked in my parents' driveway, waiting for me to finish college so I can afford to driv

 

[scottb50]

Which should really give you a clue to launching an acceptable payload from an aircraft. You couldn't come close to launching a manned orbital vehicle from the biggest airplane in existence. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[north_star_rising]

"LOL..."

 

[north_star_rising]

Scottb50: "Which should really give you a clue to launching an acceptable payload from an aircraft. You couldn't come close to launching a manned orbital vehicle from the biggest airplane in existence."<br /><br />Scottb50,<br /><br />Thank You!, for making this observation.<br /><br />In the last 10 Years the International Space Agency has looked at many many ideas and concepts, for a potential post shuttle world.<br /><br />Again, and Again, the Ground Based Assisted Launch System has come to the Forefront!<br /><br />We have been most interested in using Magnetic Propulsion as the Primary Acceleration Forces (Not to levitate the Launch Sled & Vehicle as in a MEGLEV approaches), and in tandem with, a conventional Metal Rail and over/under metal wheel configuration and launch track. This space launch ramp facility would be located on or near the Earths Equator, and would be constructed on the highest suitable mountain site at a near constant 45 degree launch and release angle. <br /><br />http://www.international-space-agency.net/igbsls.html<br />

 

[Blur]

FYI- Pegasus only gets about 5% of it's delta V from the aircraft.<br /><br />I think something like a linear induction motor sled would be a good way of getting something like a ramjet/scramjet off the ground, since they have poor L/d and engines that won't work at low speeds. I believe it is less practical to launch large rockets for reasons already mentioned though.

 

[north_star_rising]

Blur, Thank You for your support of our concept and idea, and we totally agree with you in these regards!<br /><br />http://www.international-spaceplane-program.org<br /><br />Please see this Poll & Space Launch System Design Competition on Space.Com, I think you will find it very interesting! Thanks.<br />http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=217709&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=

 

[north_star_rising]

Your welcome!