Question Astrometry - TheAncient branch of Astronomy re- Our Sun

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Wolfshadw

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Evidence? Link to papers that support your statement?

As I understand things, our star started out as a yellow star and remains a yellow star until it does grow to a red giant in around 5 billions years., However, that is not the last stage. Beyond the red giant phase, the remaining corpse, being a white dwarf and once that energy dissipates, a brown dwarf.

-Wolf sends
 
May 8, 2020
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Evidence? Link to papers that support your statement?

As I understand things, our star started out as a yellow star and remains a yellow star until it does grow to a red giant in around 5 billions years., However, that is not the last stage. Beyond the red giant phase, the remaining corpse, being a white dwarf and once that energy dissipates, a brown dwarf.

-Wolf sends
all stars start blue. then during purge they change colour with slag being thrown or burned off, this changes the colours over time.
 
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Ok so the sun started blue in our time and relation to our solar system
So it is blue then it green and up to then everything is not good for life.
However at yellow the sun starts purging material from it and during this process the sun changes from yellow to orange.
The sun is burning off unknown amounts of material in a purging affect but also forms magnetic poles r it had been throwing stuff out in space bombarding everything everywhere.
After that point , life almost instantly on a Geological time frame life started on earth. That was at the key point of life can start around 6.92 billion years ago.
 
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IG2007

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Ok so the sun started blue in our time and relation to our solar system
So it is blue then it green and up to then everything is not good for life.
However at yellow the sun starts purging material from it and during this process the sun changes from yellow to orange.
The sun is burning off unknown amounts of material in a purging affect but also forms magnetic poles r it had been throwing stuff out in space bombarding everything everywhere.
After that point , life almost instantly on a Geological time frame life started on earth. That was at the key point of life can start around 6.92 billion years ago.
Sorry, but all your claims are baseless. Although, its true that the sun emitted blue light the most during its beginning. But, it was covered by different spectrums of light and it appeared yellow at the beginning as well. And now, it emits green light the most but because of the same reason, it still appears yellow. And, sir, the sun affects the Magnetosphere only by solar winds and nothing else. That is the reason we see the auroras. And sir, you are going back more than a billion year , life started on Earth about 3.5 billion years. And there are many evidences for my claim. If you require them, I am ready to give you.
 
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Thanks , I think when constructing agruements on science our view may be discussed.
You say baseless however my application of knowledge is undisputable.
It is what happened to our sun pure and simple .
My skill set is the cutting edge on all system function.

But thankyou IG2007. If you would like to add to this with you review of what happened I would be more then interested in listening to it. However as no-one can infinitely say what happened then it is up to those who wish to discuss what they think happened to do so and form a theory.
At this stage my hypothesis is accurate, right down to the 6.92 billion years ago our sun is now orange.
Earth was formed and the reason for that is there is no more meteors hitting it every day, so it can form or begin to form stable constant elements and evenually life.
 

IG2007

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The Sun, and the whole solar system was formed 4.5 billion years ago. That is what every science book says. Your claims are baseless. I have read it in every atlas, chemistry book and geography book. Pls give evidences.
 
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rod

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FYI, my problem with this thread is the opening question, "Astrometry - TheAncient branch of Astronomy re- Our Sun" It seems a Sun color discussion kicked off and timeline provided by various. However, astrometry is the study of position, magnitude, and motion of stars, thus more than color. Do we have telescope measurements for the Sun's position, magnitude, and motion some 4.5 billion or 6.92 billion years ago? My answer is no. Thus showing the position, magnitude, and motion changes of the Sun for the different timelines claimed in the thread, remains to be shown here :)
 
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rod

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FYI, here is an example using the Sun. I was out observing early this morning shortly after 0500 EDT. Starry Night Pro Plus 8 and Stellarium 0.20.1 show the Sun's current celestial coordinates and galactic coordinates. Define those positions for the Sun 4.5 billion or 6.92 billion yeas ago?
 
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That's weird with dates about our sun. I would say it was 19 billion years ago it was yellow purging . At 18 billion years is was creating it magnetic fields and at 6.92 billion years it was clean and orange. hence yellow to orange phases .
 

IG2007

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That's weird with dates about our sun. I would say it was 19 billion years ago it was yellow purging . At 18 billion years is was creating it magnetic fields and at 6.92 billion years it was clean and orange. hence yellow to orange phases .
Until and unless you enlighten us with evidences, such as maths or something like that, we shall not deem you to be right. The Universe itself it about 14.5 or something like that billion years old, how can the Sun be 19 billion years old?

The age of the Solar System is based on this kind of maths: https://earthobservatory.sg/faq-on-earth-sciences/how-do-we-know-age-earth-what-about-age-solar-system
 
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Catastrophe

"There never was a good war, or a bad peace."
It may appear that some people pull their "knowledge" from thin air. If that were the case, and I am not suggesting for a second that this might be so, then it is to be hoped that they might eventually learn the error of their ways, In particular that thin air is only sparsely endowed with what others might misconstrue as reliable information.
 
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rod

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FYI, the reference provided for the age of the solar system is correct in the history of meteorite dating, "Lead isotope isochron that Clair Patterson used to determine the age of the solar system and Earth (Patterson, C., 1956, Age of meteorites and the earth: Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta 10: 230-237). The animation shows progressive growth over 4550 million years (Myr) of the lead isotope ratios for two stony meteorites (Nuevo Laredo and Forest City) from initial lead isotope ratios matching those of the Canyon Diablo iron meteorite. Courtesy of Wikipedia."

However, the timeline provided is dependent upon an *initial starting point*, the Canyon Diablo meteorite used as the canonical reference point to begin measuring the time span. In astrometry, that this threads deals with, there is no astrometric position or motion changes calculated for the Sun that matches with the canonical starting point used, the Canyon Diablo meteorite. Thus the Sun's motion changes over this time span cannot be verified via astrometrics, and this includes 19 billion years too. This should be clearly pointed out.
 
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IG2007

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Wait a min, I don't think that the age of the Solar System can be found out by its positions in the sky. It's not possible. Nor it is scientific.
 
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rod

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Wait a min, I don't think that the age of the Solar System can be found out by its positions in the sky. It's not possible. Nor it is scientific.
Astrometry is scientific. Astronomers regularly map star positions and motion changes. Hipparcos did this and Gaia did. I agree though, using astrometry to measure the age of the Sun *It's not possible*, we have no canonical starting point to measure from. The importance of the age of the solar system link in my opinion is that Clair Patterson radiometric model age is dependent upon a canonical starting point, the Canyon Diablo meteorite isotope ratios. The accepted solar system age today is a model dependent age with a canonical reference point - that can never be wrong or apparently falsified too. However, my opinion, there are various astronomical holes in the canonical solar system age model too. In my readings, I find this is not commonly presented to the public--Rod.
 
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IG2007

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I mean to say that Astrometry is only used for getting the orbits of different bodies and for spotting things in the sky. Other than that, it is not possible to use Astrometry (Astro+Geometry) to measure the age of the solar system. Any hypothesis using Astrometry to measure the age of the solar system is baseless in my opinion...
 
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rod

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I mean to say that Astrometry is only used for getting the orbits of different bodies and for spotting things in the sky. Other than that, it is not possible to use Astrometry (Astro+Geometry) to measure the age of the solar system. Any hypothesis using Astrometry to measure the age of the solar system is baseless in my opinion...
Question, is using the canonical reference starting point, the Canyon Diablo meteorite to measure the age of the solar system, a clean bill or a bill with dirty amendments and various astronomical holes in it? This is an opinion answer here.
 

IG2007

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Question, is using the canonical reference starting point, the Canyon Diablo meteorite to measure the age of the solar system, a clean bill or a bill with dirty amendments and various astronomical holes in it? This is an opinion answer here.
Can you please tell me any method, of Astrometry, which can be used to measure the age of the solar system? Otherwise, this forum is of no use.
 
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rod

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Can you please tell me any method, of Astrometry, which can be used to measure the age of the solar system? Otherwise, this forum is of no use.
IG2007, it is not a forum problem. The thread title or question "Astrometry - TheAncient branch of Astronomy re- Our Sun" is the question.

As I followed different threads posted under this question, I kept seeing different ages for the Sun ranging from 4.5 billion to 19 billion years old but no mention of what astrometry is all about :) So I decided to define astrometry and apply to the various ages for the Sun tossed around in this thread. Presently what astrometry can show about the Sun is that it is moving in the galaxy. How much motion took place since its origins is not verifiable, thus the canonical starting point for calculating the age of the solar system, the Canyon Diablo meteorite age has a hole in it here (the Sun's past motion) along with other issues like the rapidly spinning Sun 4.5 billion years ago compared to the present rate of spin near 2 km/s at its equator. To answer my own question, I think the radiometric ages of various meteorites used to establish the age of the Sun for example, do come with various dirty amendments. The age calculations are not a clean bill in my view--Rod
 
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IG2007

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Rod, I mean to say you can only figure out the orbit of the Sun around the Milky Way, not it's age using Astrometry. It's not possible to find it out using Astrometry.
 
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rod

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Rod, I mean to say you can only figure out the orbit of the Sun around the Milky Way, not it's age using Astrometry. It's not possible to find it out using Astrometry.
IG2007, I am glad you make this clear. Using the canonical age starting point, the Canyon Diablo meteorite that Clair Patterson and others used, this is a *fixed age* for the solar system now, about 4.56 billion years old and fixed since 1956 it appears. However, the Sun is considered to complete one galactic orbit around the Milky Way in about 250 million years. That means the Sun completed 18 galactic orbits or rotations since its origin using the Canyon Diablo meteorite starting point for the age of the Sun. As you said IG2007, *It's not possible to find it out using* the meteorite ages either that the Sun did this in its past motion. You can assume this and extrapolate using the Canyon Diablo fixed age as your starting reference point, but cannot verify that this is factual in astronomy. So we have various dirty amendments attached and circular reasoning for certain ages accepted today. The Canyon Diablo and Clair Patterson work is the accepted, consensus view today in science. However, it is apparent to me, that dirty amendments are needed too, something not commonly reported on, my opinion.
 
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IG2007

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Rod, I just have one question which you are ignoring, is there any way of getting the age of the Sun using Astrometry? Astrometry is just a division of Astronomy, it's no cousin of Astronomy like Astrophysics. Astrometry is just the science of the position of heavenly bodies in the sky. It can be used to find the orbit of different heavenly bodies, eclipses and constellations. It is not possible to use astrometry to find out the age of the Sun, just not possible. There is no way to find it out using astrometry.
 
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