BBC Article: "Europe space plans face 'crunch'"

[Slava33]

<p><font size="2">It seems the Europeans are going to be deciding on a three year plan for their space program later this month. &nbsp;There are a lot of big ideas on the block, the biggest of which seem to be Mars sample return mission and modifying the ATV for human flight. &nbsp;The timing, however, couldn't be worse for obvious reasons. &nbsp;I for one would love to see Esa being a bigger player in space tech, but looks like China is well on the way to pass them...&nbsp;</font></p><p><font size="2">Link to BBC article</font><font size="2">&nbsp;</font></p><p><strong><font size="3">Quote:</font></strong></p><p><font size="3">Mr Dordain recently announced that he would be seeking about 9bn euros from ministers next month to fund new and existing projects. Sources told BBC News that Esa had previously been targeting a budget of roughly 14bn euros.&nbsp;</font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[aphh]

<p>We can not afford to invest in space technology or other high technology anymore for reasons I will not go into details right now. It could be said, that the big battle has been lost already. Only breadcrumbs are left now.</p><p>Only hope is if some innovative start up companies showed up, &aacute;la SpaceX. </p>

 

[Slava33]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>We can not afford to invest in space technology or other high technology anymore for reasons I will not go into details right now. </DIV></p><p>I don't think it's all doom and gloom right now. &nbsp;Yes, the economy is tanking, but it doesn't mean the innovation is going to stop. &nbsp;In fact, it is in hard economic times that technology makes leaps. &nbsp;On the big scheme of things, it is going to be a bump on the road. &nbsp;Our space dreams should not die because of economic crises.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MarkStanaway]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I don't think it's all doom and gloom right now. &nbsp;Yes, the economy is tanking, but it doesn't mean the innovation is going to stop. &nbsp;In fact, it is in hard economic times that technology makes leaps. &nbsp;On the big scheme of things, it is going to be a bump on the road. &nbsp;Our space dreams should not die because of economic crises.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by Slava33</DIV></p><p>Yes I agree. During the slump of the 1930's some of the greatest advances in aviation were made. This was the period which saw the development of the first modern ailiners like the Boeing 247 and the immortal DC 3. It was also the period which saw the launch of the great trans Atlantic liners like Queen Mary and Normandie and the building of engineering marvels like the Hoover dam. Most importantly for us space buffs it was also the period when Von Braun, Korolev and Goddard were taking the first practical steps in the development of modern rocketry. All this in the midst of the most severe economic depression (not recession) of the twentieth century. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[aphh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>All this in the midst of the most severe economic depression (not recession) of the twentieth century. <br /> Posted by MarkStanaway</DIV></p><p>This is not just a economic depression, but the demographics and the people are changing rapidly aswell. Please account for this fundamental change in your future visions of space exploration, and you will quickly start to see the real problem.&nbsp;</p><p>You will also understand why the center of mass of tedious and demanding programs like space exploration is shifting towards East.&nbsp;</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

 

[MarkStanaway]

<p>Well according to this BBC report the outlook is not as gloomy as it was looking earlier</p><p>&nbsp;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7749761.stm</p><p>Its great to see some good news. An actual INCREASE in the requested budget was unexpected!</p><p>Using some of that government money to stimulate the economy actually seems to have filtered down to the space community.</p><p>Could we hope that some of the US government stimulus package will reach NASA as well?</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Slava33]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well according to this BBC report the outlook is not as gloomy as it was looking earlier&nbsp;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7749761.stmIts great to see some good news. An actual INCREASE in the requested budget was unexpected!Using some of that government money to stimulate the economy actually seems to have filtered down to the space community.Could we hope that some of the US government stimulus package will reach NASA as well?&nbsp; <br /> Posted by MarkStanaway</DIV></p><p>It IS great news! &nbsp;Great to see some still have a long term vision and also see high-tech job creation as one of the ways to get out of this mess. &nbsp;Human-rated ATV, ExoMars, Galileo: lots of good programs that will position ESA to take more of a leading role in space exploration in the future!&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[aphh]

<p>It's mostly good, but once again too little emphasis was put on the independent crew and sample return capability. They could have ordered ESA to make the crewed version of ATV operational several years quicker.</p><p>We lack lobbyists, who could inform these "science ministers" better about the manned spaceflight. These ministers are not highly informed experts on space technologies, so without somebody to guide them, they will continue thinking about earth observing satellites and communication satellites, of which we already have a plenty.&nbsp;</p>

 

[Slava33]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>It's mostly good, but once again too little emphasis was put on the independent crew and sample return capability. They could have ordered ESA to make the crewed version of ATV operational several years quicker.We lack lobbyists, who could inform these "science ministers" better about the manned spaceflight. These ministers are not highly informed experts on space technologies, so without somebody to guide them, they will continue thinking about earth observing satellites and communication satellites, of which we already have a plenty.&nbsp; <br /><p> Posted by aphh</DIV></p><p>Another blog post (not sure how reliable) details the human exploration budget for the next 3 years. &nbsp;While the ISS-related costs are in the billions, the ATV-human rated vehicle efforts are only in the tens of millions.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nimbus]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>We can not afford to invest in space technology or other high technology anymore for reasons I will not go into details right now. It could be said, that the big battle has been lost already. Only breadcrumbs are left now.Only hope is if some innovative start up companies showed up, &aacute;la SpaceX. <br /> Posted by aphh</DIV><br />Could you start another thread to go into those details please? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[aphh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Could you start another thread to go into those details please? <br /> Posted by nimbus</DIV></p><p>To make it short, <br /><br />maybe hard sciences have become too hard for us. No instant gratification. Indians, Chinese and Japanese all love math, physics and technology. They will go right past us in a decade or two.&nbsp;</p><p>I have tried to persuade a few capable youth to take the natural sciences route, but they just want to do useless media studies and other kind of soft and softer things.&nbsp;</p><p>It's a pretty weak situation we're stuck in.&nbsp;</p>

 

[Slava33]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>To make it short, maybe hard sciences have become too hard for us. No instant gratification. Indians, Chinese and Japanese all love math, physics and technology. They will go right past us in a decade or two.&nbsp;I have tried to persuade a few capable youth to take the natural sciences route, but they just want to do useless media studies and other kind of soft and softer things.&nbsp;It's a pretty weak situation we're stuck in.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by aphh</DIV></p><p>Education IS the cornerstone of space exploration, and math/science education has been lagging terribly in the US. &nbsp;Meanwhile, an average aerospace worker is getting older and who's replacing them?&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>