Can Falcon 9 Heavy Launch Nasa's LEM?

[mr_mark]

It seems Nasa has a problem and I think the Falcon 9 Heavy has the solution. With current budget constraits, they are talking about a delay of 8 years for landing on the moon landing in 2028. Why wait, let's stay on time. Spacex could launch the LEM as a substitute for the Ares 5 and link up with Constellation launched by Ares1. Can it be done?

 

[EAK09]

I'm under the impression that....
1) the Heavy can get 29,000kg into LEO, 15,000kg into GSO
2) has a payload volume similar to the Columbus node on the ISS.
3) NASA considered $22,000 kg pound a fair pice to pay. Spacex already. $1.6 Billion for 12 COTS missions --> $133m per launch... / 6,000kg cargo).
What do you know about the lander dimensions / mass?

 

[gunsandrockets]

Yes and no.

A Falcon 9 heavy, even an uprated version with a LOX/LH2 upper stage could not be a simple substitute for the Ares V rocket. The Ares V will have more lift capacity than the old Saturn V rocket, whereas the Falcon 9 heavy is more comparable to the current Delta IV heavy.

The Falcon 9 could be part of a manned lunar exploration plan, but it would have to be a plan very different from the architecture NASA intends to use with the Ares I and Ares V rockets.

 

[EAK09]

Yes and no.
The Ares V will have more lift capacity than the old Saturn V rocket..

What are the load capacity to LEO amounts for each?

Load Capacity to Leo
Falcon9 heavy : 29,000 kg
Shuttle : 24,000 kg
Saturn V : ?
Areas V : ?

 

[Stewie_Griffin]

Yes and no.
The Ares V will have more lift capacity than the old Saturn V rocket..

What are the load capacity to LEO amounts for each?

Load Capacity to Leo
Falcon9 heavy : 29,000 kg
Shuttle : 24,000 kg
Saturn V : ?
Areas V : ?

Saturn V: 118,800 kg to LEO

Ares V: 188,000 kg to LEO

all of this info is available on wikipedia

 

[gunsandrockets]

The figure for Ares V sounds too high. I thought is was more in the neighborhood of 135,000 kg payload to LEO if employing the EDS.

 

[Maitri982]

Yea...Ares V is only 5% greater payload than Saturn V

 

[Stewie_Griffin]

The figure for Ares V sounds too high. I thought is was more in the neighborhood of 135,000 kg payload to LEO if employing the EDS.

No, Ares V will be able to launch 188,000 kg to LEO

this is from http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/const ... index.html :

The versatile, heavy-lifting Ares V is a two-stage, vertically stacked launch vehicle. It can carry nearly 414,000 pounds (188 metric tons) to low-Earth orbit. When working together with the Ares I crew launch vehicle to launch payloads into Earth orbit, Ares V can send nearly 157,000 pounds (71 metric tons) to the moon.

414,000 pounds = 188,000 kilograms

 

[gunsandrockets]

Ah, that number you are referencing is not the payload, it is the total mass injected into LEO; which is not quite the same thing as payload, as it includes the total mass of the spacecraft at the time the engine cuts off.

 

[kelvinzero]

That doesnt sound very impressive then. I really thought this beastie was supposed to be substantially bigger.

Wiki claims that the Ares V has a payload of 188kg, compared to 118 for the Saturn V. If this just isnt so then it should be corrected.

 

[wdobner]

Yes and no.

A Falcon 9 heavy, even an uprated version with a LOX/LH2 upper stage could not be a simple substitute for the Ares V rocket. The Ares V will have more lift capacity than the old Saturn V rocket, whereas the Falcon 9 heavy is more comparable to the current Delta IV heavy.

The Falcon 9 could be part of a manned lunar exploration plan, but it would have to be a plan very different from the architecture NASA intends to use with the Ares I and Ares V rockets.

I am curious what that mission architecture would have to be to land on the moon using a SpaceX-based mission. Per Wikipedia it looks like the Altair's descent stage alone weighs 35,000kg, around 6 metric tons more than the Falcon 9H's LEO capability. I don't know what percentage of that mass is fuel, but I suppose it could be possible we could launch an empty Altair with a Falcon 9H, then its fuel on another launch to do the fueling in orbit. I would imagine that the Earth Departure Stage would make for an even greater challenge launching with a smaller booster. I'd think we'd have to fly the rocket, the main body of the EDS, and maybe even the fuel on separate flights. I guess we could join two upper stages together, but at that point it'd make more sense to just develop a heavy lift booster.

I suppose we're stuck with either developing the Ares V, Mr. Musk's "BFR", or having SpaceX, Bigelow or some other commercial spaceflight group develop their own lunar lander.