Chang'e 1: Chinese moon probe mission

3488 · Nov 26, 2007

I have found out the exact area imaged by Chang'e 1. The lava flooded region at the top centre is Crater Hanno H (57 deg south & 75 east). Crater Hanno itself is visible on the immediate left. To the lower left of Hanno, on the left side of the frame almost half way down is the Crater Pontecoulant (59 deg south & 66 deg east). The prominent crater near the very centre is Crater Gill (64 deg south, 76 deg east). The very large crater in the bottom left is Helmoltz, approx 69 degrees south & 65 degrees east. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

docm · Nov 27, 2007

That pic is terrific. Off to the wide-format HP it goes <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

alokmohan · Nov 27, 2007

Indian mission is marked succesful.Thanks.

JonClarke · Nov 27, 2007

can you work out the resolution Andrew? Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

astrowikizhang · Nov 27, 2007

Here is info and photo about where the image is taken: http://www.lpi.usra.edu/resources/lunar_orbiter/bin/info.shtml?86 The Gill crater has an diameter at about 66 km, and its size in the image is about 550 pixels. So I think the resolution is at about 120 meter-per-pixel, exactly matches the camera's specification.

3488 · Nov 27, 2007

Hi Jon, I have just number crunched too. Astrowikizhang is correct. It is 120 metre resolution, so we both agree on the same figure. Unless Chang'e 1 lowers the orbit, this will be the resolution of the images. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

l3p3r · Nov 29, 2007

great! thanks for the comparison! excellent images! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

astrowikizhang · Dec 2, 2007

3D composition of the first moon image is released on a conference. http://i2.sinaimg.cn/dy/c/2007-12-02/U660P1T1D14433606F21DT20071202151412.jpg http://i0.sinaimg.cn/dy/c/2007-12-02/U660P1T1D14433606F23DT20071202151412.jpg http://i0.sinaimg.cn/dy/c/2007-12-02/U660P1T1D14433606F1394DT20071202151412.jpg

astrowikizhang · Dec 2, 2007

A few new craters are discovered when comparing the Chang'e image with the Google Moon image. Chang'e scientist suggested 2 explainations: 1. The Google Moon image resolution is too low to reveal the small craters that Chang'e shot. 2. The Google Moon images are taken in 2005, new craters could have been created by meteoroid impact since 2005. I also have some questions: 1. Where are the Google Moon images from? Were they taken during the Clementine mission? How accurate is Google Moon? 2. How big a meteoriod could excavate a crater visible in the Chang'e image? A space rock 25 cm wide could create a 14 m wide crater, what could lead to a crater about 100 times bigger? Any impact event at that size even observed?

3488 · Dec 2, 2007

Hi astrowikizhang. Would not surprise me in the slightest is new small craters have formed over the last few years. Google Moon, is derived from Clementine images, so accuracy is not a problem, as we know that Clementine worked extremely well in Lunar Orbit & still remains the provider for the highest definition of the Lunar Globe to date. Chang'e 1 will come in an extremely close second for that honour, but unlike Clementine, Chang'e 1 will acheive said goal in 3D. If Chang'e 1 has imaged fresh craters, than those craters are real & fresh. Also Google Moon, may not be 100% accurate. I have not viewed it, as the last time I attempted it, it crashed my computer, as did Google Mars. BTW, where did you get the new Chang'e 1 images from? I have looked on the China National Space Administration site, & the newest they seem to have is the initial release of the first 2D image strip, around Hanno? Concerning impacts, MeteorWayne is a good person to ask. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

astrowikizhang · Dec 3, 2007

I got those new images from www.sina.com.cn, a Chinese news media website. Further info about the new impact crater. There may not be a NEW crater, but two half craters

More likely it is due to mis-alignment when image mosaicking. Two images taken from different orbits missed each other by about 3 km. Here is the link, it is in Chinese, but there are a few images could explain what happened: http://www.astron.sh.cn/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=52&topic=92

anthmartian · Dec 3, 2007

Thanks very much for all your updates astrowikizhang. I do not think there is much doubt that Chang'e 1 has uncovered brand new impacts. Like Andrew i hunted everywhere and could not find any new images from Chang'e 1. Looks like this mission is off to a great start too. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"Han Solo - 1977 - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away.... Click Here And jump over to my site. </div>

3488 · Dec 3, 2007

Hi astrowikizhang, Thank you very much for your link. Whern I get home later, I will have a proper look & download the images. I remember something very similar mentioned, a long while ago, when Mariner 10 encountered Mercury & the initial mosaics where put together (Mariner 10 has a Framing Camera, not Push Broom), but mistakes were made, due to a timing error aboard Mariner 10, had placed the surface features, 3 KM further east than they really were (funny the same 3 KM error) & also half craters were generated along some of the seams (but this was correctable & has since been corrected). As they say, what goes around, comes around. So it is interesting to see, that this can still happen with images from modern spacecraft. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Dec 3, 2007

Hi Anthmartian, Whilst that mystery appears to have been solved, I also would not rule out, both SELENE & Chang'e 1 finding fresh impact craters. I tell you what will though, the upcoming Lunar Reconnaisance Orbiter with its 30 cm resolution LROC. But I do think, that all three craft will find fresh impact craters. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

astrowikizhang · Dec 3, 2007

Hi Anthmartian, Have you checked out the images in the link above? Comparing the same smaller craters around the "new" and "old" craters in the Chang'e and Google Moon images, you could conclude there is not enough room for a new crater. And neither of the "two" craters are closed. I think it is not a fresh impact, but a mistake in the image mosaicking.

astrowikizhang · Dec 3, 2007

There are fresh craters because 68 impact events have been recorded by NASA since November 2005, regarding those impacts not observed, there should be more fresh craters. But I doubt there'd be a new crater twice the size of the famous Arizona crater, which is 1.2 km in diameter! Imapct made such a crater could produce a huge flash and eject thuosands of tons of lunar debris into space. People couldn't have missed such an impact on the side of Moon facing the Earth.

MeteorWayne · Dec 3, 2007

Do you have a source for those 68 impact events? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

astrowikizhang · Dec 3, 2007

I found the 68 impacts here: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/marshall/news/lunar/

MeteorWayne · Dec 3, 2007

Thanx, that's a great link I was not aware of!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Dec 3, 2007

Thank you again very much astrowikizhang. I will check the link out later @ home. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

anthmartian · Dec 3, 2007

I see it now. Pray you don't end up in court with me on jury duty! lol I will look at all the evidence in future. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"Han Solo - 1977 - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away.... Click Here And jump over to my site. </div>

anthmartian · Dec 6, 2007

Anybody following the alleged "fake moon image" story? http://www.space.com/news/ap-071204-china-photoreal.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/12/03/wchina103.xml maybe the extra crater was a red herring? put in by chinese photoshoppers to throw us off the scent??? lol China has been accused of releasing a photo shopped image of a rare Tiger recently thought to be extinct. Could this be more of that? I am a self confessed hater of conspiracy theories. But, those running the Chang'e 1 mission need to start releasing imagery, and fast. Or they will have an internet frenzy on their hands. The image in question is lit almost exactly the same, i can see differences in the shadows on some craters. However, to some it is simular enough to be very suspicious. you cannot blame anybody for being wary of this "first moon image" by Chang'e 1. For me though, the Chinese image holds much more information, it is far higher resolution. But then again, i am only wrong about 5 times a day on these boards. lol <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star, or bounce too close to a supernova and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"Han Solo - 1977 - A long time ago in a galaxy far far away.... Click Here And jump over to my site. </div>

no_way · Dec 6, 2007

no its not fake http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001248/ http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/12/04/495870.aspx once again, i recommend subscribing to a actual space-specific newsfeeds.

astrowikizhang · Dec 6, 2007

Of course the image is not fake, but it is not perfect either. The project scientists haven't discovered the mosaick mistake before the image was released, or just known there is some minor mistake and thought the public would not discover or care about ? The "new" crater was discoverd by someone in Canada quickly after the image was available online, but why shouldn't any project scientist have discovered it first? They have been working on the image for days . The chief scientist, Ouyang Ziyuan, even used the "new" crater as the proof to debunk the rumor. "Our image is different from NASA's, there is a new crater... Maybe the 2005 NASA photo is not clear enough to reveal the feature, or it was impacted after 2005." He said formally on TV. But didn't he know the Clementine images were taken in 1994? Why didn't he double-check if there was any impact event recorded could cause a new 3 km crater before confirming this discover? He acted like a government officer, not a scientist. One more time, the mosaick mistake was discovered by someone online not by a project scientist. Definitely there is not a new crater. But no feedback so far from the project scientists. The latest news is about the head of CNSA asked the public to respect the 4 years of hard working by the 17,000 people involved in the Chang'e project.

astrowikizhang · Dec 6, 2007

Clearly this is another minor mistake from: http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-12/02/content_7187500.htm "the scientific instruments on board Chang'e-1 have all gone into operation and the satellite is sending back 3 trillion of data per second" The data rate is 3 Mbps instead of 3 Tbps, no space probe could send data back at Tbps <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

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