Cost, complexity of LEO to moon?

[kelvinzero]

Hi, I think I am totally underestimating the cost of getting robotic probes from LEO to the moon. (I was wondering why it isnt buzzing with 1kg hobbiests remote control orbiters <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> )<br /><br />To help me get a better idea could someone break down what they can guess of the costs these three missions?<li> Impact a craft of any mass on the moon<li> skim close enough to snap a historic site (and return image home)<li> Land a tamiya car (or something similarly fragile) intact on the moon.<br /><br />Solve the problems any way you like with current options. Im guessing you dont need to pay for an entire launch for example, but send it up with some other mission</li></li></li>

 

[jimfromnsf]

It is the cost to LEO. And too complex for hobbiests

 

[kelvinzero]

That was exactly my impression! But isnt the cost to LEO only several thousand per kg?<br /><br />How massive would the smallest device be that could impact the moon from LEO? And how expensive? Im imagining some 1kg craft with some solar cells and a small ion drive that might take a year to complete the trip. Or a solid fuel rocket?<br /><br />Even with no scientific merit, wouldnt plenty of enthusiats want lob something at the moon if it only cost tens of thousands, just to get themselves on the very short list (currently only of nations) who have ever done so? <br /><br />Tell me about these complexities.

 

[jimfromnsf]

That is the average cost per lb for a whole mission, not the incremental cost. Actually, adding more different payloads to a mission actually increases cost. It has been found that integrating (analytically) secondary payloads primary almost takes the same amount of effort as the primary to make sure the secondary doesn't impact the primary payload.

 

[kelvinzero]

Yes I actually guessed that. Even if delivery is as simple as someone pushing a button on the side and biffing it into space during a spacewalk, there is probably a huge number of costs associated with this. If some hobbiest wants to deliver something to space, especially something potentially explosive, the cost/pound probably ends up not being the biggest factor.<br /><li> Im going to call this the 'surprising secondary payload cost' <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />There might be ways of mitigating that, eg if many hobbiests paid for one mission, with one device that disperses identically sized payloads evenly on safe trajectories.. or perhaps someone can come up with another idea.<br /><br />Now, assuming we can get our 1kg craft in LEO, how many people could build something that could impact on the moon? what sorts of costs are they looking at (barring the LEO delivery cost)</li>

 

[kelvinzero]

BTW, do you have anything like a table of costs for different sized payloads? For example what is the cheapest/kg deal payload size right now, and who is selling it?

 

[keermalec]

proton is launching 21 tons to LEO for 65 million USD, ie 3'000 USD per kg only... but its payload capacity is 21 tons, not a few kg.<br /><br />The current problem small space companies have is the prohibitive cost of putting small payloads into LEO.<br /><br />For example, the first Delta rocket could put 226 kg into LEO for 7.27 million USD in 1985 dollars, that is 32'000 USD/kg.<br /><br />Apart from the Proton or Zenit, which are around 3'000 USD/kg, most launchers will ask for 8-10'000 USD/kg and much more for very small payloads.<br /><br />Designing a small vehicle to go from LEO to the moon may cost "only" a few hundred thousand USD in developement and construction costs, if using standard technology. However for 1 kg on the moon you probably need 10 kg in LEO or something like that, so you are also paying several hundred thousand USD at least to get it to LEO. Maybe a very small space project could get 1 kg on the moon for less than a million, but probably not for less than 500'000 USD.<br /><br />And you'd need a lot of small space projects at the same time to buy a small rocket launch. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>“An error does not become a mistake until you refuse to correct it.” John F. Kennedy</em></p> </div>

 

[kelvinzero]

yes. Im not too worried, since I dont have the first 100,000 <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Im betting there will eventually be ways of paying the per kg price as with a postal service, but apparently not yet. Conceptually it is easy: send it in a large shipment up to the ISS, and get someone to biff it out the airlock during a spacewalk <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> I was thinking ion drive rather than chemical, and was hoping to get a better ratio than 1/10.