could it be I saw Jupiter and its moons on my birthday?

vandivx · Jun 22, 2007

I moved to Europe for the summer and tonight looking from my upstairs bedroom (little town of 1500 people, still we have street lamps here <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) I noticed one star brighter than the rest roughly south and about fourty degrees above horizon I fetched my binoculars which I have so far used mainly to look at the Moon once in a while and the bright star turned up quite big disk and it had couple what looked like moons at about 8 o'clock position and I thought could that be Jupiter and those two are the moons Galileo had seen? it looked just like those pictures he had drawn of his observation from what I remember or were those just two distant stars projecting near the planet? if so which planet? I think Galileo had seen three or even four moons but what with my old prescription glasses and ordinary binoculars supported only on window casing, I only watched over the span about an hour and couldn't tell if their position was changing also a bit down and to the right was some red glittering planet, at least I thought it might also be a planet, it was quite strongly colored with that red color flashing and it stayed there for that whole hour I was looking, perhaps that was Mars? none of the other stars were twinkling with color like this one and you could tell it was different from the rest even without binoculars vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 22, 2007

There are 4 moons visble at times through binoculars. However they can also be behind Jupiter, or in front, where you really need a scope to see one there. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

tfwthom · Jun 22, 2007

Here's something to play with: JupSat95 Calculates and displays the positions of Jupiter's four main (Galilean) moons - Io, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto for any date and time Provides timezone support based on a PC's time, date and timezone settings and takes account of Daylight Savings Time Displays side-on view as it would be seen through one of three optical configurations (Binoculars, Astronomical Telescope, Star Diagonal) and plan view of Jovian system <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> www.siriuslookers.org </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 22, 2007

Had to laugh at this on that page <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> "Page Last updated: 23:36 Saturday, January 24, 3904" <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

vandivx · Jun 22, 2007

thx everybody, I am amazed its true and I did see what I thought I saw <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> I only know astronomy from pictures and in theory and didn't suspect one is able to see Jupiter so big with nothing special and even to see its moons just like Galileo did see them, he might have had a little better scope or better eyes or just darker skies or as said better timing as they might have been behind or in front of Jupiter... will be looking out if I will be able to see more but tonight its cloudy are the moons of Jupiter orbiting in the main orbital plane of the solar system or are they tilted relative to it? I suppose Jupiter must be getting pretty close to Earth these days to be visible like that if I find the program I used to use (Redshift) I suppose I could get all the answers but as it is I thought it would be faster to ask, thx again TFWThom - alas the nifty page doesn't work for me, I suppose its based on Java and somehow it mulfunctions for me quite often to the point I see it as ill conceived script, I can't do anything with that pannel, can't input date or anything even if I allow everything and even use IE crazyeddie - Antares in Scorpio, interesting, nice name, why just that one would twinkle and be so colorfull like they have some fireworks going on there <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> I really have to get one of those star lookup programs going /edit: two days later I saw couple moons on the right of Jupiter and one on the left, neat as it gets <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

CalliArcale · Jun 24, 2007

I went to NinePlanets.org to find out Jupiter's axial inclination. (Way at the bottom, under "Appendices", click on "Misc".) It's 3.13 degrees, which is not much at all. (Earth is 23.45 degrees.) Meanwhile, Jupiter's orbital inclination is 1.31 degrees. Since the four big moons orbit close to the plane of Jupiter's equator, this means that yes, they are close to the plane of the ecliptic (the plane of the solar system; Earth's orbit is exactly zero degrees to this plane). Jupiter is close to opposition right now, which does put it close to Earth. Here is a chart at Wikipedia showing the various kinds of conjunctions, including opposition, to explain this. Jupiter goes into opposition about once every Earth year; if you think about the geometry of the situation, this should make sense. And here is another tool you might like playing with: Solar System Live. It's not very fancy, but it'll give you a quick and dirty look at the solar system. Click "entire solar system" to see that Jupiter is relatively close to Earth. There's no Java or anything; it does all the work server-side. <blockquote>In reply to:<hr />why just that one would twinkle and be so colorfull like they have some fireworks going on there<hr /></blockquote> Any bright star (and sometimes even planets) can twinkle, but there's some luck involved as to whether or not they actually will. Being close to the horizon increases the odds. Basically, its' because of small distortions in the Earth's atmosphere. It happens more often in the summer, as heat rises away from the Earth at night and makes the air shiver. It's the same thing that causes mirages on roadbeds, basically, and which makes things seem to shimmer on <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

vandivx · Jun 28, 2007

Any bright star (and sometimes even planets) can twinkle, but there's some luck involved as to whether or not they actually will. Being close to the horizon increases the odds. Basically, its' because of small distortions in the Earth's atmosphere. It happens more often in the summer, as heat rises away from the Earth at night and makes the air shiver. It's the same thing that causes mirages on roadbeds, basically, and which makes things seem to shimmer on very hot days. It's beautiful, but it drives Earthbound astronomers nuts. not driving this one Earthbound budding astronomer nuts, just vishing I got my real new first scope soon to check what it is that I am looking at (I think my $50 Bushnell 10x50 binoculars are rather on the low end of quality as binoculars go - even at best focus the Jupiter doesn't make nice neat round disk) I was reading up "Looking to buy your first telescope?" thread and I really think I should spend extra for that GoTo thing on one of those Dobsonians as I may never be bothered to find my way around sky like those hardboiled people around here who scoff at such gizmos (I can understand that going by experience from other areas where people fall for similar extras) point is I have just a weak motivation to identify star constellations appart from major ones that one can't almost avoid identifying like Orion and Big/Small Dipper because I see it as happenchance arrangements with no intrinsic value as far as science (physical/astronomical) goes last night around 10 pm CET when no other stars were showing (yet) I had view of Jupiter (and three of its moons) and this twinkling star (a bit lower along 45 degree diagonal in SW direction from Jupiter) and the full Moon (due directly W from the twinkling star about the same distance from the star as that between that star and Jupiter) all visible in the region I could easily cover with the palm of my outstretched hand <</safety_wrapper> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

CalliArcale · Jun 28, 2007

I was referring to the professional astronomers. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> Backyard viewers such as ourselves can find beauty in twinkling stars because we're not trying to study them! The geostationary satellites are too far away to be visible to the naked eye, even though they tend to be relatively large, as satellites go. The star you saw near Jupiter sounds very much like Antares. It's one of the brighter stars, and it actually *is* red. ("Antares" means "against Ares", which is of course the Greek name for Mars.) It is in the constellation Scorpio, and may be thought of as the eye of the scorpion. There's a sort of hook shape made by the stars that form Scorpio's "tail". Constellations indeed are generally without any real relationship between the stars. They're so arbitrary that few have been recognized by multiple cultures. Those few include Orion and both of the Dippers. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> But they can be useful as reference points in the sky. I don't know very many myself, but I do know Scorpio. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff." -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 28, 2007

Here's the area around Jupiter, showing the moon tonight, a few of the major stars, Scorpio, and even where the asteroid 4/Vesta. Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jun 28, 2007

Hi CalliArcale. Very true about you comments about Jupiter. Jupiter as a result has no real seasons, as such. It seems stange that Jupiter orbits the Sun almost bolt upright (I would expect that anyway), whereas Saturn another large object (about a third of Jupiter's mass has quite a considerable tilt of 27 degrees!!!!!!! Yes true also the Galileans orbit around Jupiter more or less around Jove's equator. Interesting resonance with Io, Europa & Ganymede. For every one orbit Ganymede completes, Europa does two & Io four!!! This resonance almost includes Callisto too, but Callisto is just that bit too slow. From here in Britain, Jupiter slinks low over the southern horizon. Still impressive, but very yellow due to the light passing through obliquely through the atmosphere. Also it does not get completely dark here anyway, the Sun only dips at most sixteen degrees below the northern horizon at true midnight (1:00 AM BST). No sooner it gets 'dark' its getting light again!!!!! From mid July, we start getting our nights back. Geostationary Satellites. MeteorWayne may know, I understand they can be seen telescopically. Do not know about binoculars (probably not). Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 28, 2007

BTW, geostationary satellites would not be in Scorpio anyway, they all orbit above the equator, so would be 25 degrees higher in the sky, in Ophiuchus. To my knowledge none are binocular objects, but I'm not sure of that...I'll do some checking, but I believe you need a decent sized scope. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 28, 2007

Twinkling Stars from The Bad Astronomy page (which includes good astronomy like this) link "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star Week of August 23, 1999 It's semi-common knowledge that stars twinkle and planets don't. By semi-common, I mean that a lot of folks know that, but I also mean it isn't strictly true. Stars twinkle because we see them from the bottom of a sea of air. Little cells of air, which are about ten centimeters across and located many kilometers high, move across our vision as we watch the sky. These small bundles of air act like little lenses, bending light as it passes through them. This bending, called refraction, is familiar to anyone who drives on a hot day: hot air just above the road surface bends light more than the cooler air slightly above it. That's why you can sometimes see that shimmery veil of what looks like water on the road; it's really the air bending the light above it. Sometimes you can even see cars reflected in the road! Anyway, these parcels of air up high in the atmosphere travel to and fro, bending the light from a star in more or less random directions. Stars are big, but they are so far away that they appear to be very small, much smaller to our eyes than each of these air bundles. So when the light gets bent, the apparent movement of the star is larger than the size of the star in the sky, and we see the star shifting around. Our eye can't really detect that motion, because it's too small. What we see is the light from the star flickering. That's why stars twinkle! So why don't planets twinkle? It's because planets are bigger. Well, really, they're smaller than stars, but they are so much closer they appear bigger to us. They are much bigger in apparent size than the air bundles, so the smearing out of their light is much less relative to the size of the planet itself. Since the image d <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jun 28, 2007

Sirius / Alpha Canis Majoris, flashes in all colours from here, as from this latitude, does not rise particularly high. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

vandivx · Jun 28, 2007

Here's the area around Jupiter... going by that pic it would then be Antares as CalliArcale said, the Moon needs to move to the right along its line past the Antares star and then it would be in the position as I saw it last night around 10 pm 3488: From here in Britain, Jupiter slinks low over the southern horizon. Still impressive, but very yellow due to the light passing through obliquely through the atmosphere. weird that Jupiter should be 'low over horizon' in UK, I am more or less on the same latitude and just one hour + GMT in central EU and I see Jupiter quite high (perhaps 40 degrees above astronomical horizon) making it just about still ok to rest my binos on the window ledge and tilt it up by resting it on a little step in the ledge and see the Jupiter, any higher and my 'tripod' would prove insufficient and you can't try to hold binos freehand or even resting them against vertical objects is not too good, I must be getting old maybe as my hands shake something awful what is puzzling is that just this one star should twinkle, probably that is because it is brightest object, after Jupiter that is, even full Moon next to these two didn't overpower them vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Jun 28, 2007

Hi vanDivx. Where do you live then? From here Jupiter is very low down, even when crossing the Meridian. If you say Jupiter rises to 40 degrees, you must be much further south than me. From here it barely rises 16 degrees @ present. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 29, 2007

Bright stars twinkle most when they are low on the horizon, because they are passing through the most air. Vega and Arcturus, further above don't twinkle as much in the evening, but I during my recent meteor watches, I always notice when Arcturus starts to get low (~ 3AM EDT), because when it starts, the twinkling becomes quite distracting. vanDivx, where are you? MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jun 29, 2007

Hi MeteorWayne, I'm curious too. Particulalrly when he says Jupiter rises 40 degrees up. Cannot be near me, as from here Jupiter barely makes it out of the murk near the southern horizon. 16 degrees max elevation from here, so 40 degrees places vanDivx 24 degrees further south. 51 - 24 = 27 degrees north. Morocco or the Canary Islands are the closest I can think off. Dark enough for Meteor Observing a 3:00 AM?? From here its already getting fairly light!!!! The faintest stars visible perhaps second mag. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 29, 2007

Andrew, I show max altutude of Jupiter for you of about 17 1/2 degrees (PS could you PM me your Lat/Long again; I can't find it. Please title it Lat/Long so I won't lose it again {sheepish grin} ) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

vandivx · Jun 29, 2007

Prague, Czech Republic Latitude: 50 5 N Longitude: 14 26 E I am actually about 100 miles or 160 km south of Prague, about the same distance North from Viena, that is halfway between the two which would give me Latitude about 49 degrees Vienna, Austria Latitude: 48 14 N Longitude: 16 20 E I'll be damned if that's not Jupiter I am looking at, I must have discovered Jupiter II then <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> because it has moons and is bright and no way near horizon, actually there is a big hill south of town here but this Jupiter is still well above it, pretty well direct South around 10 - 11pm vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 29, 2007

I used halfway between, 49d 10m N, 15d 23m E And came up with maximum elevation for Jupiter of just over 19 degrees. Perhaps you are overestimating the elevation. It's actually very hard to do without a lot of practice. Took me a full year (hundreds of hours of meteor observing) to be able to be very accurate. You could compare it to the elevation of Polaris, the North star, which would be ~ 49 degrees from your location. You are saying it's nearly that high. Is that true? Assuming you are currently 1 hour ahead of UT, max elevation is at 1:17 AM. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

vandivx · Jun 30, 2007

I used to climb frozen waterfalls and yes the angle of ice slope always seemed steeper than it really was and I suppose the star elevation is also easy to over or underestimate, in this case overestimate still this Jupiter was in no way slinking above horizon, I understand from my limited knowledge that by horizon here we mean horizon if one was observing from perfectly flat ground with no hills around and I do have hill in the South obsuring this true hrizon and this fake Jupiter is still well above it, I am ready to throw towel into the ring and give up as hands on astronomer and stick to theoretical science that I seem to have more aptitude for those 'Galilean moons' I saw then would be some background stars that just happen to be alligned to look like that, I don't stay up and watch them change positions to see if they actually do change vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jun 30, 2007

No, it sounds like you are indeed seeing Jupiter. All I'm saying is you are overestimating the elevation. That's very common, especially near the horizon. Did you compare it to the elevation of the North Star? One rule of thumb (or hand) is that your fist held out at arms length is about 10 degrees wide. Another thing you could do, is if you have a protractor, is to make youself a crude sextant. Hand a string with a weight from the center of the flat edge, then point the flat edge at Jupiter, grab the string where it crosses the curved edge, you can then read how far off from 90 degrees it is. That's the elevation the flat edge was pointing at. I'm a big believer in hands on experiments to understand sky concepts <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

usn_skwerl · Jun 30, 2007

a trick i do is use paper, pull one corner down so it meets the opposite side, like youre making a paper airplane. it should look like a triangle. the wide part of the triangle is now 45 degrees. keep one edge flush/level with the ground and bring the corner towards your eye. follow the angle up, and youre now looking at a 45 degree altitude. one step further....fold that corner to the opposite side again, and you now make a 22.5 degree angle. once more, and its 11.25. these angle make GREAT assistance when you first start out looking for the ISS or an Iridium flare out there <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

vandivx · Jul 1, 2007

what I did was take ordinary level and placed it leveled on window ledge (with the help of several books) and used machine shop angle measuring gizmo (old style with halfcircle and moving arm, rusted to boot) which I rested on the level and sighted along its arm which is not made to be used like that but one can make rough measurements that way sky was not cloudy and there was full Moon moving in from the left at 12:30 am which made just the 'Jupiter' and this Antares star visible for casual look out of the window and lo and behold the 'Jupiter' elevation came out just 16.5 degrees and the sparkling Antares about 12 degrees above horizon (somewhat to the right of Jupiter) I was grossly overestimating it then and I think I am looking at Jupiter after all, thx for the hints both of you to try to rig some measurement vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

vandivx · Jul 1, 2007

Morocco or the Canary Islands are the closest I can think off. LOL I wish, always thought I was more fit to live in more moderate climes, alas I was just badly estimating, put it all on account of that hill that looks so big <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

could it be I saw Jupiter and its moons on my birthday?

vandivx

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

tfwthom

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

vandivx

Guest

CalliArcale

Guest

vandivx

Guest

CalliArcale

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

3488

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

3488

Guest

vandivx

Guest

3488

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

3488

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

vandivx

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

vandivx

Guest

MeteorWayne

Guest

usn_skwerl

Guest

vandivx

Guest

vandivx

Guest

Similar threads

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts

Share this page