DAWN mission to orbit 1 Ceres & 4 Vesta.

MeteorWayne · Feb 3, 2009

Hey Daniel,What does the term "Notational Tracking" (To be implemented) on your Real-Time webpage mean?http://www.dmuller.net/realtime/index.php?mission=dawnTIA, Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Feb 3, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hey Daniel,What does the term "Notational Tracking" (To be implemented) on your Real-Time webpage mean?http://www.dmuller.net/realtime/index.php?mission=dawnTIA, Wayne Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Hi Wayne,I've hunted around trying to find an answer. Not sure if I'm correct, one explanation is that Notional Tracking relies using UTC to track a craft, that goes silent, based on predicted motion, either by failure or because the signal is temporarily lost because the craft is carrying out other activites (would fit with DAWN encountering Mars) or the craft is eclipsed. The fact it has not as yet been implemented also seems to back this up. My guess & that is all it is, is that DAWN has no 'I'm alive' beacon that MESSENGER has & used during the science gathering episodes during the Mercury encounters.Somehow I would find it strange that DAWN has no such beacon. Perhaps it was dropped as a penny pinching action bearing in mind DAWN was cancelled twice.Perhaps Daniel could confirm or refute what I have just said. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

brandbll · Feb 3, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> After all, the Mars flyby is just a means to reach Vesta, and would not have been in the flight plan had the mission launched earlier. Posted by dmuller_dot_net</DIV> Question: So are they using Mars for a gravity boost or is this encounter purely coincidental?  If the former, does this mean that DAWN is carrying extra fuel or did they cut back on fuel to compensate for the boost? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard! </div>

dmuller_dot_net · Feb 3, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What does the term "Notational Tracking" (To be implemented) on your Real-Time webpage mean? Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Sorry to disappoint but it doesnt mean anything particularly fancy. It is meant to list the DSN station(s) which could communicate with the spacecraft at the current time. I had that in place for the Phoenix landing, and the information can be obtained from the Horizons system, but I havent gotten around to implement it yet (there's some data volume issues with it). Also the trajectory information in the Horizons system for Dawn is not accurate. I may (time permitting) try and create something around Mars C/A since the Horizons system has accurate data for Mars. The trajectory data for Dawn are taken from the SPICE kernels. If anybody knows about SPICE kernels (.bsp files) which have the DSN locations, then I could calculate the "notional tacking" inormation based on that. But I haven't found it yet (there is one file around, but I dont understand how it works, as it doesnt seem to be using the same reference frames etc as planetary and spacecraft trajectory data).

dmuller_dot_net · Feb 3, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Question: So are they using Mars for a gravity boost or is this encounter purely coincidental?  If the former, does this mean that DAWN is carrying extra fuel or did they cut back on fuel to compensate for the boost? Posted by brandbll</DIV>Mars is used as a gravity assist to (a) increase speed and (b) change the inclination. This flyby became necessary because the late launch of Dawn meant that there would not have been enough time for the ion thrusting to reach Vesta at a scientifically valuable time. Had Dawn launched in/before 2006 (I dont know the exact cut-off date), then the Mars gravity assist would not have been needed and was not planned either. Thus none of the insturments on Dawn are designed for Mars observations.

dmuller_dot_net · Feb 10, 2009

Notional DSN tracking for Dawn (or to be more precise: for Mars) has now been implemented for the next 16 days at http://www.dmuller.net/dawnUpdated trajectory files now seem to suggest closest approach on 18 Feb 00:29:06 UTC at an altitude of 549 km.2 1/2 days until Dawn enters the Martian Hillsphere ...  EDITED: Thanks Wayne for spotting the typo <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-sealed.gif" border="0" alt="Sealed" title="Sealed" />

MeteorWayne · Feb 10, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Notional DSN tracking for Dawn (or to be more precise: for Mars) has not been implemented for the next 16 days ...Posted by dmuller_dot_net</DIV>Daniel meant to say NOW has been implemented <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Feb 10, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Notional DSN tracking for Dawn (or to be more precise: for Mars) has not been implemented for the next 16 days at http://www.dmuller.net/dawnUpdated trajectory files now seem to suggest closest approach on 18 Feb 00:29:06 UTC at an altitude of 549 km.2 1/2 days until Dawn enters the Martian Hillsphere ... Posted by dmuller_dot_net</DIV>Thank you very much Daniel.The first real test of DAWN's intruments will be commencing in the near future. I am really looking forward to this encounter. I know that Mars has & is being well surveyed from orbit & from the surface, but this is still far from routine. Mars is never boring & DAWN is a superb spacecraft on a fascinating mission.Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Daniel meant to say NOW has been implemented Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/11/f713e1fa-517e-43d2-bb11-3a07b54263b0.Medium.gif" alt="" />  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/12/6c2a1270-a57c-407d-9c17-65d42f4ddd7e.Medium.gif" alt="" />  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/12/6c2a1270-a57c-407d-9c17-65d42f4ddd7e.Medium.gif" alt="" />  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/12/6c2a1270-a57c-407d-9c17-65d42f4ddd7e.Medium.gif" alt="" />  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/12/6c2a1270-a57c-407d-9c17-65d42f4ddd7e.Medium.gif" alt="" />  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/12/6c2a1270-a57c-407d-9c17-65d42f4ddd7e.Medium.gif" alt="" />  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/11/f713e1fa-517e-43d2-bb11-3a07b54263b0.Medium.gif" alt="" /> Not too long now Wayne, it's getting exciting. Wonder if DAWN will get to observe Phobos & / or Deimos?Simulated view of Mars from DAWN. Updated every two hours. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

dmuller_dot_net · Feb 12, 2009

I have calculated the following trajectory events, and given the timing and distances, I dont think that Phobos and or Deimos will be "researched" (I may be wrong though)All times in UTC Spacecraft event time:13-Feb 05:01:13   Enters Mars Hillsphere 17-Feb 13:02:39   Gravitational attraction of Mars exceeds that of the Sun 17-Feb 22:28:04   Deimos closest approach (16,031 km) 17-Feb 23:54:53   Phobos closest approach (8,014 km) 18-Feb 00:29:06   Mars Flyby. Altitude 549 km 18-Feb 11:54:36   Gravitational attraction of the Sun exceeds that of Mars 22-Feb 23:52:26   Exits Mars Hillsphere

MeteorWayne · Feb 13, 2009

Dawn has now entered the gravitational field of Mars (Hill Sphere) and is accelerating toward the red planet. The approach speed had dropped from 9251 km/hr to 9207 km/h as of yesterday; now it is up to 9212. Mars in now larger in Dawn'e sky than the sun. It is just under 1 million km away.Latest Dawn Journal:http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_2_12_09.asp <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Feb 13, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I have calculated the following trajectory events, and given the timing and distances, I dont think that Phobos and or Deimos will be "resear...........Posted by dmuller_dot_net</DIV>Cheers Daniel,Great to see the Phobos & Deimos pass distances & times. There's no mention of either on the DAWN site or elsewhere, so I guess they will not be observed. Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Dawn has now entered the gravitational field of Mars (Hill Sphere) and is accelerating toward the red planet. The approach speed had dropped from 9251 km/hr to 9207 km/h as of yesterday; now it is up to 9212. Mars in now larger in Dawn'e sky than the sun. It is just under 1 million km away.Latest Dawn Journal:http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/journal_2_12_09.asp Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Cheers Wayne,One thing I don't get, on Daniel's timeline, it clearly states that the Sun's gravitational field exceeds Mars's whilst still inside the Hill Sphere. I thought the Hill Sphere was the region where in this case Mars, who's gravity exceeded the Sun's permitting stable orbits?????Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

dmuller_dot_net · Feb 13, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>One thing I don't get, on Daniel's timeline, it clearly states that the Sun's gravitational field exceeds Mars's whilst still inside the Hill Sphere. I thought the Hill Sphere was the region where in this case Mars, who's gravity exceeded the Sun's permitting stable orbits?</DIV>Not quite, as I found out during the Phoenix landing (and I am still a bit puzzled about it). The Hill sphere (about the same as the old "Sphere of Influence") is the sphere around an object (mostly planet) where another object (moon) can have a stable orbit. And that sphere extends much further out than the point where the gravitational force by the planet exceeds that of the Sun. Has to do with the centrifugal force. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_sphere. In the case of the Earth, the point where the gravitation from the Sun exceeds that of the Earth lies inside the orbit of the Moon, or so I was told.

MeteorWayne · Feb 13, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Not quite, as I found out during the Phoenix landing (and I am still a bit puzzled about it). The Hill sphere (about the same as the old "Sphere of Influence") is the sphere around an object (mostly planet) where another object (moon) can have a stable orbit. And that sphere extends much further out than the point where the gravitational force by the planet exceeds that of the Sun. Has to do with the centrifugal force. See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_sphere. In the case of the Earth, the point where the gravitation from the Sun exceeds that of the Earth lies inside the orbit of the Moon, or so I was told. Posted by dmuller_dot_net</DIV> Yeah it is a bit puzzling, but you can see the difference once Dawn crossed that point. As I said the approach rate went from 9251 km/h on the 6th to 9207 yesterday, but now today the approach rate has increased (currently 9216). Fascinating stuff. Mars is getting pretty big in the windshield! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

dmuller_dot_net · Feb 14, 2009

Slight correction to events times on the realtime simulation. The times stated so far were actually ET rather than UTC, so all events were late by 66 seconds. The corrected times now are:13 Feb 05:01:13  Enters Mars Hillsphere 17 Feb 13:01:33  Gravitational attraction of Mars exceeds that of the Sun 17 Feb 17:47       Visible and infrared mapping spectrometers switched on 17 Feb 21:21       Primary science camera switched on 17 Feb 21:57       Slew to Mars observation attitude. Loss of main antenna signal. 17 Feb 22:26:58  Deimos closest approach (16,031 km) 17 Feb 23:53:47  Phobos closest approach (8,014 km) 18 Feb 00:28:00   Mars Flyby. Altitude 549 km 18 Feb 11:53:30  Gravitational attraction of the Sun exceeds that of Mars 19 Feb 11:09       Slew to point main antenna to Earth 20 Feb 15:48       Slew to Mars observation attitude to practice Vesta arrival. 20 Feb 19:28       Slew to point main antenna to Earth. End of Mars flyby observations. 22 Feb 23:51:20  Exits Mars Hillsphere

3488 · Feb 14, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Yeah it is a bit puzzling, but you can see the difference once Dawn crossed that point. As I said the approach rate went from 9251 km/h on the 6th to 9207 yesterday, but now today the approach rate has increased (currently 9216). Fascinating stuff. Mars is getting pretty big in the windshield! Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>It is fascinating stuff indeed Wayne. IIRC around closest approach Mars will be deliberately streaked as to use all of the pixels in the framing camera equally & to test that intrument fully. However the departure shots will be crystal clear & a movie made of the receding rotating Mars.I am really looking forward to this, immensly. Of course during the departure movie we'll know that DAWN is headed for 4 Vesta at long last. I quite like the 4 Vesta arrival rehearsal (which by default will also be a 1 Ceres arrival rehearsal). They're a very great team with a great spacecraft, the reason why DAWN will go down as one of the greats in solar system exploration, will be joining the MERs, Phoenix, MRO, MESSENGER, New Horizons, etc in this respect. Also the exact track will be known & wonder about the possibility of further asteroid encounters on route. Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Slight correction to events times on the realtime simulation. The times stated so far were actually ET rather than UTC, so all events were late by 66 seconds. The correc...............Posted by dmuller_dot_net</DIV>Cheers Daniel,  As I said above, like the 4 Vesta arrival rehearsal. This Mars encounter I think will still yield new information about the Forth Rock form the Sun. That departure movie is going to be stunning for sure, possibly with Phobos & or Deimos passing in front of Mars.Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 15, 2009

As of 2 PM EST, Mars is now twice the size of the sun in Dawn's sky It's about 509,000 km away, and the speed approaching Mars has increased from 9207 km/hr 4 days ago to 9254 km/hr as Mars' gravity drwas it toward the red planet. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 16, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>As of 2 PM EST, Mars is now twice the size of the sun in Dawn's sky It's about 509,000 km away, and the speed approaching Mars has increased from 9207 km/hr 4 days ago to 9254 km/hr as Mars' gravity drwas it toward the red planet. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> As of 9 Am EST this morning, Dawn's approach speed to Mars is up to 9315 km/Hr from a distance of 329,000 km away, and Mars is 3 times the size of the sun in Dawn's sky! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 16, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>As of 9 Am EST this morning, Dawn's approach speed to Mars is up to 9315 km/Hr from a distance of 329,000 km away, and Mars is 3 times the size of the sun in Dawn's sky! Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> Just over 25 hours from closest approach, as of 6 PM EST, Dawn is about 248,700 km from Mars, approaching at 9372 km/Hr. Mars is now 4 times as large as the sun in Dawn's sky!Duck big Red, we be flyin' by real soon! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 17, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Just over 25 hours from closest approach, as of 6 PM EST, Dawn is about 248,700 km from Mars, approaching at 9372 km/Hr. Mars is now 4 times as large as the sun in Dawn's sky!Duck big Red, we be flyin' by real soon! Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> As af 9 AM this morning (EST) about 10 hours from closest approach Dawn in 105,500 km obove the Martian surface. Speed toward Mars has increased to 9674 km/hr (~ 2.7 km/sec), and Mars is now over 9 times the size of the sun in the windshield (About 7 times the size of the sun in our sky) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 17, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>As af 9 AM this morning (EST) about 10 hours from closest approach Dawn in 105,500 km obove the Martian surface. Speed toward Mars has increased to 9674 km/hr (~ 2.7 km/sec), and Mars is now over 9 times the size of the sun in the windshield (About 7 times the size of the sun in our sky) Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> Closest approach -9 hours. Altitude 92,295 km. Speed approaching Mars 9747 km/h. Mars is now 11 times the size of the sun in the sky.BTW, all the stats from Daniel Muller's site:http://www.dmuller.net/realtime/index.php?mission=dawn <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 17, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Closest approach -9 hours. Altitude 92,295 km. Speed approaching Mars 9747 km/h. Mars is now 11 times the size of the sun in the sky.BTW, all the stats from Daniel Muller's site:http://www.dmuller.net/realtime/index.php?mission=dawn Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> CA - 8 HrsAltitude 82,639 km. Speed 9813 km/hr. Mars now 12X the diameter of the sun. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

rybanis · Feb 17, 2009

I'd love to see the view from Dawn as it goes by... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 17, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I'd love to see the view from Dawn as it goes by... Posted by rybanis</DIV> Well we will get to see some images...

CA-772,115 kmSpeed 9905 km/hrMars 13.5 times the size of the sun. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

MeteorWayne · Feb 17, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Well we will get to see some images...

CA-772,115 kmSpeed 9905 km/hrMars 13.5 times the size of the sun. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV> CA - 6hAltitude 62,928 kmSpeed 10,009 km/h (2.8 km/sec)Mars is 15.4 times the size of the sun in Dawn's sky.The visible and IR spectrographic imagers are now switched on. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Feb 17, 2009

Hi Wayne,Thanks for the updates. Also it only 2 hours & 46' till primary observations commence.Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

DAWN mission to orbit 1 Ceres & 4 Vesta.

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