Do you believe in the possibility of life in other galaxies?

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Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
Feb 18, 2020
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As Carl Sagan (and others, I believe) put it, "faith is belief, in the absence of evidence". I understand your thinking, but since the video didn't actually go there... You can assume that was the intent of the presenter. I can assume that a goodly number of posts/threads on these forums (including this thread) fall into that assumption. But again, I have to respectfully disagree.

-Wolf sends
That is fine by me. I have to say that I quite enjoyed pulling apart all the (IMHO) misrepresentations, so, in the end, I did get something worthwhile from it. ;)
It did not overstep the mark, so I agree it is acceptable as a statement of one person's opinion.

Cat :)
 
Jun 1, 2020
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I think the video is an interesting and honest assessment in general.

He seemed to hit the key points fairly well, IMO. He gave an honest answer as to the question of life elsewhere by stating, "I don't know". That seemed to be his summation of all the analysis. The statistical analysis is too indeterminate to draw any other conclusion, so he got it right (based on science).

But, it is clear the video leans into the idea that we are alone, and we should see each neighbor as a "diamond". This may even be the purpose behind the video. The idea of traveling alone from lifeless planet to lifeless planet for decades, then coming home, who wouldn't be elated to see other people. Heck, on a cruise/work ship, I was elated just to hear music after hearing none for two weeks at sea! Also, this is why folks living in West Texas are likely more friendly than those in crowded cities.

Faith is a higher level of belief since it comes with assurance, IMO. I don't see any argument presented to justify faith in either answer to the question of alien life. One can chose to believe or not believe based on the limited amounts we have in both subjective and objective evidence. But it is very clear that we lack adequate objective evidence that would qualify as anything that would be compelling to argue life on other planets.
 
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Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
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Helio, I am sorry, but, IMHO, it says nothing except that we have not found any other life, therefore it does not exist BECAUSE we have not found it AND therefore do not know AND therefore (I'll just whisper) that proves what 'I' believe . IOW very "tongue in cheek". OK that is just my personal opinion, but I would still be very interested to know why he made a video to tell us of his ignorance (of the fact, that he did not know). Very subtle.
I have my personal conclusions. I have the greatest faith in my conclusions. Leave it there.

Cat :)
 
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There is bound to be life out there in this huge universe. It's probably risen and expired many times over in many different galaxies but the distances are so great that we will properly never know. Even in our own Milky Way these distances are so vast that signals may take eons to reach our telescopes.
Even if intelligent life is out there other than us, and was only found on one planet in a galaxy, and only 1 out of 1000 galaxies harbour life, that still means that the possibility of intelligent life is still huge.
But that doesn't mean that that intelligent life is anything like us and the planet may not even resemble earth.
 
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Helio, I am sorry, but, IMHO, it says nothing except that we have not found any other life, therefore it does not exist BECAUSE we have not found it AND therefore do not know ..._
How can one argue both these cases? "Not knowing" cancels the "not existing" assurance.

... I would still be very interested to know why he made a video to tell us of his ignorance (of the fact, that he did not know).
It is odd, admittedly, but this is a very big topic, so perhaps he made it for students or friends given the interest in whether or not we are alone, as least what science has to say about it so far.
 

Catastrophe

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IMHO Anyone with 1% brain would see through the misunderstandings propagated.
Was it made for people with inherent single orientated beliefs (of any kind)? Whom else?

Cat :)
 
May 14, 2021
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This concept is somewhat like the theory of solar systems when I was young. The Bode's Law theory was that planets are arranged in distances roughly twice that of the next inner planet. But, we only had one example. Now, that we've found thousands of planets out there, we find it is mostly chaotic. There may be some life out there where silicon substitues carbon in the core molecules, and there may be some with chlorine as the oxidizer, but, I think that by and large, any significant life on planets will be mostly the carbon, oxygen-breathing, bags of water that we are. Whatever the distribution may be, it will totally surprise us much as what solar systems look like. We've found planets around stars in what?, maybe 5-10% or so of our galaxy, it'll be more difficult as we look farther away at the rest of the galaxy. I don't see us detecting much in the way of planets in other galaxies just because of the immense distances, let alone life or intelligence. At least not until we can put some gargantuan mirrors or radar dishes in space or on the far side of the moon.
 

Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
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If I read you correctly, the further we extend our instruments, the more planets, and the smaller planets (not mainly gas giants) we will find. The more planets we find, the greater the chances are of finding life, although not necessarily carbon based, although carbon is more versatile than silicon.
Whilst I have to agree with Helio, that we cannot observe (thus, scientifically prove) life until we find it, I have to take the position that the odds are so great that the widespread existence of life (but not all intelligent life) is inevitable.
To me, it is rather like saying that I have not met anyone who has won the jackpot on the lottery, so I am not going to believe than any exist until I meet them.

Cat :)
 
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Life? I believe so, very hard to imagine that it only happened here. Intelligent life? One or two or a few per galaxy. It’s just that other galaxies are so remote as to preclude discovery of much. Have we been visited by others? I doubt it, too much travel time. C is still the ultimate speed limit.
 
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Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
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I was thinking earlier. We keep on about us. What about dolphins - they are intelligent. What about all the "what if's" like what if the dinosaurs had not suffered a bad accident? What if some completely different lifeform had emerged instead of the P/triassic incident. There are many, many other very competent lifeforms which might have evolved if our (planetary) past had been less catastrophic. Please keep that in mind.

Cat :)
 
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Life? I believe so, very hard to imagine that it only happened here. Intelligent life? One or two or a few per galaxy. It’s just that other galaxies are so remote as to preclude discovery of much. Have we been visited by others? I doubt it, too much travel time. C is still the ultimate speed limit.
Yes, the Fermi Paradox alone suggests great restrictions on any hope for ubiquitous intelligent life.

Though SR established c as the max. speed limit, ironically, SR also shows that this is only for those waving the travelers goodbye. The travelers, given enough hp can go even to other galaxies very quickly, but at incredible expense. The recent, and plausible, idea to send at super tiny probe powered by lasers to Proxima Cen. in only 21 years may be regarded as an important milestone for us.
 

Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
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Sorry, (of course we don't know) but it is still absolutely ridiculous to assert that in all the billions of galaxies and billions of billions of stars, and trillions of planets, and billions of years the Universe has existed, that there is no life.
Compare that with the fact that we are not the only intelligent species on this planet. Ever heard of dolphins? And ants have great organisational ability. Also, give some other species a few thousand years to evolve.
What possible motivation might there be to assert that in all the billions of galaxies and billions times billions of stars, there is no intelligent life?
What possible motivation? To suggest that we are the only ones.

Cat :)
 
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I agree, life gotta be somewhere, we just haven’t found it yet in our science infancy, so to speak. Each species has an intelligence specific to its environment and need; they’re wired up to do what they need to do. We were able to evolve a brain because of need, and inherited the best tools ever on the end of our arms thanks to the monkey/ape heritage, we’ve been able to create technologies to survive in all the environments that we’ve invaded at the cost of everyone and everything else. But, also thanks to everything else that went just right for us, Earth’s orbit, the moon, tides, just the right asteroids at just the right times, the right climate changes at the right times, etc. Just not the one we’re in now.
 
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...We were able to evolve a brain because of need, and inherited the best tools ever on the end of our arms thanks to the monkey/ape heritage, we’ve been able to create technologies to survive in all the environments that we’ve invaded at the cost of everyone and everything else. But, also thanks to everything else that went just right for us, Earth’s orbit, the moon, tides, just the right asteroids at just the right times, the right climate changes at the right times, etc. Just not the one we’re in now.
If you have Disney+, you can see a National Geographic series about the earth and what it took for life to evolve here. It's called "One Strange Rock" and can be found in the Docuseries" section. I highly recommend it.
 

Wolfshadw

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I'd say the possibility of life in other galaxies is about (@Catastrophe - This one's just for you....) Infinity - 1. However, since life elsewhere in the universe has not yet been confirmed, I cannot deny the possibility (1/infinity IMO) that we are alone.

-Wolf sends

P.S.
Yes. This post is mostly in jest.
I'm well aware of my previous statements that the term, "Infinity" is a concept and cannot be acted upon, mathematically.
 
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As Carl Sagan (and others, I believe) put it, "faith is belief, in the absence of evidence". I understand your thinking, but since the video didn't actually go there... You can assume that was the intent of the presenter. I can assume that a goodly number of posts/threads on these forums (including this thread) fall into that assumption. But again, I have to respectfully disagree.

-Wolf sends
Yes, without evidence we can only assume that the existance of life is possible somwhere out of the Solar system. But still, the chance is pretty high I guess
 

Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
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IMHO (My apologies for leaving this out when I posted:
"Sorry, (of course we don't know) but it is still absolutely ridiculous to assert that in all the billions of galaxies and billions of billions of stars, and trillions of planets, and billions of years the Universe has existed, that there is no life.

I absolutely defend the right of anyone who says 'we haven't seen it, so we don't positively know' but I believe they are totally and utterly wrong. My stance, on further thinking about it, is:

Whilst anyone who wishes may believe otherwise, imho there can be no doubt whatsoever on statistical grounds, that life is widespread throughout the Universe - granted that intelligent life will be markedly less common than microorganisms. Moreover, it should not be assumed that other intelligent lifeforms closely resemble humanity, and may be considerably different.

Cat :)
 

Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
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This is probably the most interesting 35 minutes of my life.
The story of Earth from beginning to end, including the birth and death of all life forms. From the age of mammals back to microorganisms. No politics, just plain science-based deduction and prophesy. I recommend it to all unreservedly. It is directly relevant to the beginning, and end, anywhere - including stars in other galaxies.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9e8qNNe3L0

For some reason, it is starting in the middle. Just grab the RED moving indicator at the bottom and drag it back to the start.

Cat :)
 
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In post #45, Cat has a link to a video that sums up the "Life and Death of planet Earth". It is a riveting, rational, and realistic portrayal based upon our so far physical knowledge of our Universe and solar system. Well worth the watch. For those of you that may ask "What about the pending collision with the Andromeda Galaxy in 3.5 to 4+ billion years"? I'm anticipating an update based upon further data. I've done a rough calculation using current data that suggests that the Andromeda Galaxy will side pass the our Milky Way Galaxy by ~176ly. Any updates/comments are welcome.
 
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Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
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sam85geo, Thank you for drawing attention to this. There is so much in this video, covering the whole span of Earth, including detailed suggestions about the beginning and end of all life, that it provides enormous quantities of 'food for thought'. For example, it had never occurred to me that there might not be a 'second chance' for intelligent life after the disappearance of mankind. Obviously the expansion of the Sun in about 5 billion years, but the significance of the time before that had eluded me.

Cat :)
 
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sam85geo, Thank you for drawing attention to this. There is so much in this video, covering the whole span of Earth, including detailed suggestions about the beginning and end of all life, that it provides enormous quantities of 'food for thought'. For example, it had never occurred to me that there might not be a 'second chance' for intelligent life after the disappearance of mankind. Obviously the expansion of the Sun in about 5 billion years, but the significance of the time before that had eluded me.

Cat :)
Cat in my opinion this video should be watched a least 2 times; I got so much more out of it the 2nd time. Also, I recalled a speculative video that deals with the near in aftermath of a post humanity world. That speculation is that the Family Hominidae survives but with a new Genus and Species. Essentially, intelligence survives H. Sapiens' demise but speculates that our "distant" future near relations go back to living mostly in the trees. (I did gleefully point this out to my in-laws). Of course, I now can't find that video to reference it.
 
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Catastrophe

The devil is in the detail
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Yes, I watched it 3 times plus a few partial repeats. I thought it was a good well-balanced effort. Of course the future projection is hypothetical but I don't think they were claiming factual perfection? Cat :)
 

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