Does anyone own the moon?

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shadow735

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I was wondering who owns the moon? Has any country claimed ownership? If no one owns the moon yet what would be needed for someone to stake a claim?<br />A moon base?<br />That is what got me thinking if the USA plans a moonbase would that mean they own the moon or part of it.<br />This is an issue that will eventually come up in the future.<br />Any Ideas? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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billslugg

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Art. II of the Outer Space Treaty states that “outer space, including the Moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.â€<br /><br />89 countries have signed it including the US and China. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p> </div>
 
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lukman

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No one claim it, just like antartic. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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nimbus

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It just shows how surreal the concept of ownership is. I think the only thing that's nearly enough someone's to call their own is what they created. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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shadow735

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I wonder how that agreement will pan out if someday the Great USA (if its still around) finds a earthlike planet.<br />Of course by that time I would hope we, as a species; would have come together as a species, exploring in harmony <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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larper

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The Outer Space Treaty says that governments cannot claim territory. It does not say that individuals, or independent corporations, cannot make such claims. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Vote </font><font color="#3366ff">Libertarian</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>The Outer Space Treaty says that governments cannot claim territory. It does not say that individuals, or independent corporations, cannot make such claims.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Which creates a huge legal quandary. It seems that someone did make such a claim that they own all extra-terrestial objects. They are now marketing off pieces. Want to buy Pluto? It's probably for sale. My problem with them is that why them instead of someone else? When the US allowed residents to claim land, that resident had to be, well, resident. You had to actually go there and live (or mine) to claim it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

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And even given that you could physically "squat on it" - "squatters rights" wouldn't be internationally recognized.<br /><br />"Might makes right". It's yours if you can go there and hold it against all comers. It's the wild-west and the Conquistadors and a bunch of Viking vessels, all rolled-up into one, im[ns]ho. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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larper

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Well, yes. That is actually a positive. Forget the Conquistadors. There are no (currently known) indigenous populations to displace. So, it's all about getting there and making it stick. If you can hold it, you can own it. This should actually encourage private enterprise, not discourage it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Vote </font><font color="#3366ff">Libertarian</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

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Well, wherein the Conquistadors were more explorer-than conquerer (regardless of the naming convention) - I'd include them.<br /><br />It would discourage private enterprise in that they'd have little hope of holding against world governments. The odds of having some big government move in and nationalize your holdings the moment they were profitable would probably add an unacceptable measure of risk.<br /><br />I'd have to insist, if it were my business, that it be clarified in some more concrete sort of way. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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vandivx

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"It just shows how surreal the concept of ownership is. I think the only thing that's nearly enough someone's to call their own is what they created."<br />---<br /><br />if you 'create' some use of the land like if you make it into a field or a grazing range or you build factory on it etc., than you own the land in question that way (in modern times though we are beyond such need to do something with the land to own it) but the quality or security of ownership depends completely on the society that you own the land in<br /><br />early settling of America had some rules I think that you got alloted some land and to keep it you were required to convert some certain percentage of it to fields or grazing range to keep it and in real wild west you could stake out much bigger land in wilderness but then you got to fend off other land stakers, it would do you no good to stake whole valley if you were alone with one horse and shotgun<br /><br />if you own something in Africa that ownership will be much less secure than if you own something in America <br /><br />now if you claim ownership on the Moon you have no nation backing that ownership up with its machinery of power and law and its as Adrenalynn said - you are on your own and you need the muscle to defend what you claim<br /><br />you can say I am citizen of USA and ask for extension of protection as a Moon colony and then that would be the same situation when early Canadians wanted to stay under British Monarchy but that backing was far away and on the Moon it would be even futher away <br /><br />but given that you got there somehow it is likely that USA can also get there with some troops and they may decide to back you up as Monarchy did those British colonists, it will really not be much different if somebody will be there before you like some Chinese, they can be treated as North American natives were in past depending whether they would be capable to stand up against USA and if Americans would be ready to meet and settle t <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

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That's all well and good until someone decides to nationalize it. It happens not infrequently here on terra-firma.<br /><br />Someone builds a farm, and some government decides that "the people" should have the proceeds from said farm, and they march their military in and take the land, the buildings, the tractors, and the vines themselves away via force.<br /><br />Heck, right here in the US, we have "eminant domain".<br />(The <i>right</i> of a government to appropriate private property for public use, <i>usually</i> with compensation to the owner.)*<br /><br />If our government decides they want to build a freeway through your yard, they just pop right in and do it. Sucks to be "you".<br /><br />The only way you can practically prevent the government from nationalizing your property (or "state-alizing"[?]) is if you can hold it against the National Guard. Unlikely at <b>best</b>.<br /><br />I think it gets even more confusing when we start talking about space. Hence the purpose, I'd imagine, for the International Treaties.<br /><br /><br />* Financial & Investment Dictionary. Barron's Educational Series, Inc. - emphasis mine.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

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Anything there that hasn't been covered? I didn't see anything... And we're kinda going a little further here - we're talking about colonies privately funded holding land physically. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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R1

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what if an upcoming lunar mission brings back a ton of moon dirt,<br />can it legally be sold? and who do you pay and how much? can someone in a non treaty<br />country declare the sale void and legally demand a purchase for themselves? Can a third part legally demand<br />its return to the moon for everyones use?<br /><br />Another question, a meteor the size of 33gal. trash can survives impact, who has the<br />right to seize, own, keep or sell it? Is the military legally allowed to seize outerspace things that land on earth?<br /> would a a non treaty country have a legal right to <br />borrow or keep it? <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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It varies by country.<br />In the US, the meteorite belongs to the owner of the property on which it landed. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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billslugg

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OK Wayne:<br />Suppose a meteor hits in my yard and bounces. While in the air, I sell it. It then comes to rest on my neighbor's land. Who gets the e-bay commission? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p> </div>
 
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MeteorWayne

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Listen sluggo, <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> if you can conduct an e-bay auction in 4 seconds, go for it and let the courts sort it out <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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ashish27

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<img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> Flipping meteors can be a good business <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />
 
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R1

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billslug, I suppose if the sale doesn't go through then at least your neighbor might be<br />liable for the initial impact damages, for example if it was your car that it bounced off of,<br />your neighbor would probably owe you a new car. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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why06

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moons, meteors, and treaties Oh my!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />PS: Antartica is actually owned by many countries. If you look a the territoies it looks like a spinner with claims all around the south pole. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>
 
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abhinava_earth

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3rd world war would fought for water, & 4th one for claiming moon.....<br />
 
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usn_skwerl

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No, the 4th world war will be fought with sticks and stones; definitely not for the moon though. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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