ESA ExoMars landing site on Mars.

thereiwas · Nov 19, 2007

While it is true that the southern hemisphere averages much higher than the north, Hellas is an exception to that and is one of the lowest places on the planet.

3488 · Nov 19, 2007

The deepest point on Mars is approx 8,000 metres / 26,240 feet below the Datum Line. The highest is approx 27,000 metres / 88,560 feet, on the summit of the giant volcano Olympus Mons. A difference of 35,000 metres / 114,800 feet. On Earth, the lowest point is the Challenger Deep within the Marianas Trench, in the Pacific Ocean @ 10,924 metres / 35,831 feet. The highest point is the summit of Mount Everest, in the Himalayas, on the Nepal & China border @ an altitude of 8,848 metres / 29,035 feet. So the Earth has an altitude difference of 19,782 metres / 64,866 feet. On Mars the LOWEST is in the Southern Hemisphere (where the average elevation is generally higher) & Olympus Mons is in the northern hemisphere where elevations are lower. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

centsworth_II · Nov 19, 2007

"Exomars rover is not built to do long range exploration as MERs." Remember that the MERs were designed for a primary mission of 90 sols and one kilometer. It looks like ExoMars is designed for about twice that. Of course it may not have the longevity of the MERs, on the other hand, it may outdo them. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

JonClarke · Nov 19, 2007

Terby made it through the latest cut (one of six). It is on the northern margin of Hellas on the southern limits of what MSL can reach. http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001212/ <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

JonClarke · Nov 20, 2007

I;ve just checked and ExoMars orbiter will be in a highly elliptical orbit. If highly inclined that may result in the assymmetry in landing site latitude. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

h2ouniverse · Nov 20, 2007

Thanks Jon for your answers, and your patience...

JonClarke · Nov 20, 2007

No worries, I love this sort of stuff! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

h2ouniverse · Nov 20, 2007

And from your assessment of Australian artesian wells, which sites tend to be more prone to upwelling? Is it the case for central-Australia lowest point?

JonClarke · Nov 21, 2007

Artesian springs are found in the lowest points of the landscape, but not neccessarily the lowest. they occur where geological structures allow artesian waters to discharge on the surface. They might be only a few 100 m lower than the recharge areas but more than 1000 km away. On Mars you would look for clusters and alignments of mounds, pits, and crater mounds. It would be difficult to distinguish them from pingoes, mud volcanoes, and rootless cones, and small volcanic or tectonic collapse pits. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

alokmohan · Nov 21, 2007

Hi Jon ,I always feel that you have tored mars.Am I correct?

3488 · Nov 21, 2007

Hi Jon, i suppose really, the way to be sure, would be to get elevation data, for the whole 1,000 KM between the 'source' & discharge. With current orbital imagery, even the quality from the MRO HiRISE, MGS MOC & Mars Express, it would be very difficult to tell, what are mud volcanoes, small composites / shields & rootless cones, particularly if dust covered. This is partly the reason, why it is so damn diffucult to always make the correct assessment of landing sites from remote sensing alone from orbiting spacecraft. This is why it is so important to get ground truth from landers too. Good example, the supposed lake bed sediments @ MER A Spirit's landing site in Gusev Crater, which turned out to be covered in basalt lava. The lake bed sediments are probably there, but buried under volcanic lava. However, the pre landing assessments of the Mars Pathfinder & MER B Opportunity landing sites in Ares Vallis & Meridiani Planum, respectively, were correct. Ares Vallis DID have the expected grab bag of differing rock types hoped for & Meridiani Planum DID have the concentrated Hematite. It was with MER A Spirit, we were fooled, by the fact that Ma'adim Vallis flowing into Gusev Crater would present us with lake beds. It is by sheer good fortune really that MER A Spirit was beautifully built & engineered & operated by such an incredible team @ JPL, did Spirit, reach & climb the Columbia Hills. With Phoenix (on route) , MSL & ExoMars, the same disparities may present. Like Jon, I too love this sort of thing. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Nov 21, 2007

Yes, ground truth is essential to tell the difference between these different processes. Of course, there may be a complete transition between some of these - between mound springs and pimgoes, for example (some of which are fed by artesian pressure) or between mound springs and some classes of mud volcanoes. You not only need an evelation difference to get artesian pressures, you also need an actively flowing (and recharging) aquifer, hydrologic connectivity between the highlands and lowlands, and an impermeable seal. We don't know enough about the Martian susbsurface to map these. Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

JonClarke · Nov 21, 2007

Only in my imagination, and using the searchable maps I linked to <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

brellis · Dec 18, 2007

ESA commits Funding for ExoMars - update Andrew, you might want to change the title of your OP to include "ExoMars" in the title, so's we can continue discussion on the big project here. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better. </div>

3488 · Dec 18, 2007

Cheers Brad, I have done so. This is extremely good news. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> Thank you very much. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

MeteorWayne · Dec 18, 2007

Yeah, but.... "European governments will not make a decision to fund the one billion euro mission until November 2008. "If we want to preserve the launch date in 2013 we cannot stop at all," Jorge Vago, ExoMars project scientist, told BBC News. "We need to start procuring long-lead items - the sort of stuff you order today and you get in one and a half years." The next available launch opportunity would be 2016. " So the decision won't be made for a year for a project that won't be launched for over half a decade. I consider anything that's more than 5 years out as theoretical. Still it is good news, that a year before the decision they are still comitted to it. <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> Rats, I think I'm getting cranky. Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

h2ouniverse · Dec 18, 2007

in reply to ----------- I consider anything that's more than 5 years out as theoretical. ----------- MW, I envy the relatively quick time constant in the US. In European space science sector, a 5 year-period is considered very short term (sigh!) and fully within scope. The bright side of it is that people are serious about it. Regards

JonClarke · Dec 19, 2007

It's a rather poor;y phrased news report, as far as i can see, which has led to some confusion. So the decision won't be made for a year for a project that won't be launched for over half a decade. ExoMars is an approved and funded mission. What will be approved in November 2008 is the next cycle of funding. unlike NASA, which has to fight for funds for is missions every year, ESA works on a 5 year cycle. Exomars had it's first budget approved in 2003, so this is just the next round. As there is such interest and support for the mission and things have been going well so far, I don't think there is much doubt that it will get through. I consider anything that's more than 5 years out as theoretical. Very few large missions go from concept to launch in less than 5 years. Cassini - 15 years. Some of the Phoenix instruments - 15 years. MER -10 years. So the 10 years from concept to launch for ExoMrs is about right. the good news is that there may be collaboration wirh Russia which means that ExoMars flies on Proton 9 bigger payload), ESA instruments on Phobos Grunt and Russian instruments on ExoMars Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

ESA ExoMars landing site on Mars.

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