New Horizons 2 renamed ARGO to be launched to the KBO via Neptune in 2019????

Status
Not open for further replies.
3

3488

Guest
<p><font size="2"><strong>OPAG (Outer Planets Assessment Group) are looking into a return to the Neptune system, with a possible launch to Neptune in 2019.</strong></font></p><p><font size="4">A possible New Horizons type craft called ARGO?&nbsp;</font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>It is only a proposal, so let's see.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>BTW, the article also mentions that New Horizons will be able to pass at least one, maybe two very small KBO's post Pluto. No mention of which or when.&nbsp;</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Andrew Brown.&nbsp;</strong></font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
B

Boris_Badenov

Guest
<font size="2">That's great news Andrew, thx. Will you be involved in this one?</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>
 
3

3488

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font color="#ff0000">That's great news Andrew, thx. Will you be involved in this one? <br /> Posted by boris1961</font></DIV></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Hi Boris,</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>At the moment no. </strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Need to see what happens first. Chances are I will as an outsider (I'm British), as I am with Phoenix, MESSENGER & Cassini & was with Galileo & will be with DAWN & New Horizons, though there's not much really to get involved in right now with them though I was deeply involved with the campaigns to save Phoenix, DAWN & New Horizons from being cancelled. </strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>I do not do any of this in a professional capacity, only as an outside interested observer who shares opinions & ideas with the mission teams directly & even help get some&nbsp; ideas of observations made.<br /></strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>I have requested that the LORRI test very distant images from New Horizons of Uranus & Neptune be made available (assuming they were taken last month).&nbsp;</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>If this mission gets canned after approval as happened with the three I got involved in, then yes I will be part of a campaign to save this one. At the moment it appears to be a paper exercise, though some hardware does already exist, from the cancelled News Horizons 2 that was to have rendezvoused with Jupiter, Uranus & the large 450 KM wide KBO 1999 TC36 with a 140 KM wide moon.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Unfortunately this mission was scrubbed as unlike NH that was launched, NH2 was to have been approx 40% more massive due to a very close pass of Jupiter that results passing through the radiation belts. NH did not have to pass any closer to Jupiter than just outside the orbit of Callisto.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>NH2 would have passed Jupiter at a distance of only 71,000 KM above the cloud tops,only just over half of the distance to Metis, Jupiter's innermost known moon. A very close Jupiter facing hemisphere pass of Io would have been possible too.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Unfortunately this meant extra mass due to extra shielding & extra radiation hardening of circuitry & we all know what that means, the mission was deemed too expensive & was thus scrubbed.&nbsp;</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>I do not know if ARGO will utilise Jupiter though I suspect Jupiter will somehow be involved.&nbsp;</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Andrew Brown.&nbsp;</strong></font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
F

fsm

Guest
<p>Interesting mission, if its picked up. I wonder if Eris is within that "120 degree arc"? Or could some extra Delta-V be put in for a swing-by that takes it BACK to Uranus, for the full tour? And then after, using Uranus's large gravity, still be able to go on to some KBO's - I saw a proposal like that for a mission that used Jupiter to double back 180 degrees.. Maybe they can use an RTG powered ion drive this time - all that power is going spare in the cruise phase, and that would give around 10 times the Delta-V for any given weight of propellant - that could open up some possibilities.</p><p>There has also been proposals for an "inexpensive" Neptune orbiter, that uses aerobraking to slow down sufficiently to get into orbit - giving a huge weight saving over simple retros. Mind in this case, given the speed it will be going, thats going to be a lot of velocity it has to loose.. </p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
3

3488

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font color="#ff0000">Interesting mission, if its picked up. I wonder if Eris is within that "120 degree arc"? Or could some extra Delta-V be put in for a swing-by that takes it BACK to Uranus, for the full tour? And then after, using Uranus's large gravity, still be able to go on to some KBO's - I saw a proposal like that for a mission that used Jupiter to double back 180 degrees.. Maybe they can use an RTG powered ion drive this time - all that power is going spare in the cruise phase, and that would give around 10 times the Delta-V for any given weight of propellant - that could open up some possibilities.There has also been proposals for an "inexpensive" Neptune orbiter, that uses aerobraking to slow down sufficiently to get into orbit - giving a huge weight saving over simple retros. Mind in this case, given the speed it will be going, thats going to be a lot of velocity it has to loose.. &nbsp; <br /> Posted by fsm</font></DIV></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Hi fsm,</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Various ideas are bouncing around about returns to both Uranus & Neptune.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>This one seems the most likely to be approved, as is cheap & uses technology that we know works very well.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>A very good point regarding Eris.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Lets see, both Neptune & Eris are on the same side of the Sun (Neptune in central Capricornus, Eris in northern Cetus behind the head). A cursory looks suggests that the saperation is indeed less the 120 degrees even now. The gap will coninue to close as Neptune is very much closer to sun, in 2019 the gap will close by a few more degrees & by the time ARGO makes the Neptune system encounter, the gap will have closed further.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>An Eris & Dysnomia pass will be of immense scientific value. How does Eris compare with Pluto (by which time we will have had high resolution imagery & other data from New Horizons), or Neptune's Triton, how does Dysnomia compare with Nix & Hydra. Where does Charon fit in? Is Charon more similar to Saturn's Dione or Uranus's Ariel? Does Eris have more moons, awaiting discovery? Is Eris evolved or primitive? Really the same questions that we currently have for Pluto.<br /></strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Regarding doubling back at Jupiter, that has been doen twice already, firstly in December 1974, Pioneer 11 doubled back to rendezvous with Saturn&nbsp; & in February 1992, Ulysses was sent on a high inclination heliocentric orbit by Jupiter, doubling back.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>So we know that works also. &nbsp;</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Breaking into Neptune orbit using aerocapture??? That would be one hell of a&nbsp; heatshield / ballute required. Maybe not impossible, but it would be a massive assembly, possibly pushing costs of such a mission to unacceptable values to the accountants. Cassini type or even New Horizons type orbiters to both Uranus & Neptune would be incredible, but I fear it will not happen any time soon. I think ARGO is our best bet right now.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Andrew Brown.&nbsp;</strong></font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
N

nimbus

Guest
<p>Andrew, sort of an off topic question, but would that path (70k km above Jupiter) not be by far the closest we've ever been to it? Wouldn't pictures taken from such a pass be especialy valuable? Just curious, not implying anything by this question.</p><p>Thanks.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
3

3488

Guest
<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font color="#ff0000">Andrew, sort of an off topic question, but would that path (70k km above Jupiter) not be by far the closest we've ever been to it? Wouldn't pictures taken from such a pass be especialy valuable? Just curious, not implying anything by this question.Thanks.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by nimbus</font></DIV></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Hi nimbus, you bet. </strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Closest approach at on 70K KM would have been over the sunrise terminator of the giant planet. Imagine the Jovian clouds with the LORRI at that close pass? Although, the pass would have been very close & fast, the instruments were designed for Uranus & the Kuiper Belt so Jupiter's much closer distance to the Sun & the resultant 'bright' conditions, exposures could have been kept extremely short, only about 20 - 50 microseconds.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>It would have been of immense value as would had the close pass of Io, the LORRI delivering images as sharp as those of the MRO HiRISE of Mars at closest approach.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>SO yes, this encounter would have been an amazing opportunity in Jupiter studies.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Pioneer 11 in has been the closest pass (not including the Galileo Atmosphere Probe & the Galileo Orbiter itself at end of mission entering the Jovian atmosphere) to date in December 1974 at only 34,000 KM, but that was over the north polar region just over on the night side.&nbsp;</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Andrew Brown.&nbsp;</strong></font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
3

3488

Guest
<p><font size="2"><strong>Only just found the below article,&nbsp;</strong></font></p><p><font size="5">Article here from the LPSI from March 2008.</font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Looks like ARGO may be able to encounter a main belt asteroid, will be able to encounter one Jovian Trailing Trojan possibly the 50 KM wide 5638 Deikoon, or 20 KM wide 2001 TW148, Saturn will be closely encountered giving a gravity assist, a very close Triton encounter, less than 750 KM, imaging most of the terrain invisible to Voyager 2 & giving Neptune a full investigation, seeing how weather systems have changed post Voyager 2 & at least one KBO either cold classical 350 KM wide 2001 QX297 or 600 KM wide large 2005 TB190. <br /></strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Two trajectories are shown.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Looks like Eris is not on the manifest, though if the 120 degree post Neptune cone remains open, perhaps Eris is still possible?</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Looks like ARGO will be the fourth in the series of New Frontier Missions.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Current list of actual / proposed / approved.</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>2 - 4 may also pass Main Belt asteroids.&nbsp;</strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong> 3 & 4 are awaiting selection & chances are they will be selected due to the immense scientific returns from the targets.<br /></strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>1). New Horizons: Jupiter, Pluto & one small KBO. </strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>2). Juno, Jupiter Polar Orbiter. </strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>3). IVO Io Volcano Observer. </strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>4). New Horizons 2 / ARGO. Jupiter Trojan, Saturn, Neptune / Triton & at least one KBO. </strong></font></p><p><font size="2"><strong>Andrew Brown.&nbsp;</strong></font></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

ASK THE COMMUNITY

Latest posts