Ever seen this(crazy german ww2 project)?

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argosy

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I was just surfing and looking for ww2 prototype planes, when I stumbled on this...Crazy...<br /><br />_____________________________________________<br /><br /><br />In June 1935 and February 1936, Dr. Eugen Sänger published articles in the Austrian aviation publication Flug on rocket-powered aircraft. This led to his being asked by the German High Command to build a secret aerospace research institute in Trauen to research and build his "Silverbird", a manned, winged vehicle that could reach orbit. Dr. Sänger had been working on this concept for several years, and in fact he had began developing liquid-fuel rocket engines. From 1930 to 1935, he had perfected (through countless static tests) a 'regeneratively cooled' liquid-fueled rocket engine that was cooled by its own fuel, which circulated around the combustion chamber. This engine produced an astounding 3048 meters/second (10000 feet/second) exhaust velocity, as compared to the later V-2 rocket's 2000 meters/second (6560 feet/second). Dr. Sänger, along with his staff, continued work at Trauen on the "Silverbird" under the Amerika Bomber program. <br /> <br />The Sänger Amerika Bomber (or Orbital Bomber, Antipodal Bomber or Atmosphere Skipper) was designed for supersonic, stratospheric flight (please see diagram below). The fuselage was flattened, which helped create lift and the wings were short and wedge shaped. There was a horizontal tail surface located at the extreme aft end of the fuselage, which had a small fin on each end. The fuel was carried in two large tanks, one on each side of the fuselage, running from the wings aft. Oxygen tanks were located one on each side of the fuselage, located forward of the wings. There was a huge rocket engine of 100 tons thrust mounted in the fuselage rear, and was flanked by two auxiliary rocket engines. The pilot sat in a pressurized cockpit in the forward fuselage, and a tricycle undercarriage was fitted for a gliding landing. A central bomb bay held one 3629 kg (80
 
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rocketman5000

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I've seen that project mentioned several times on the history channel, but that is the first time I heard about the rocket powered sled, unless my memory is fading. It would have been nice if they had gotten something like that developed. The germans had many scientists with freewheeling ideas and the desperation of the goverment to try to produce them. I assume America has just as many gee whiz designs like this in the works but due to us not being taken over by a hostile country the secrets are a little better kept.
 
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tomnackid

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"Silverbird"--the original spaceplane--was one of those seminal concepts that has shaped aerospace thinking for years after. In the late 50s and early 60s the US Air Force revived the Silverbird idea as "Dynasoar" (Dyna referred to the powered phase of flight and soar to the glide phase.) The original Dynasoar (later renamed X-20) was not intended to be orbital. Instead it would be launched on a suborbital path and--just as Sangar had envisioned for Silverbird--would skip off the atmosphere at hypersonic speeds to increase its range. Dynasoar was intended to deliver a nuclear bomb to any point in the USSR and return to friendly territory for a safe landing. It was thought that a piloted vehicle would be much more accurate than the embryonic ICBMs of the day. Also it could fly over without dropping its bombs or change its target at the last minute. As ICBMs became more sophisticated they were seen as a cheaper alternative for delivering nuclear payloads. The Air Force tried to keep the project alive be developing a fully orbital version of Dynasoar for reconnaissance and satellite interception, but this time capsules and unmanned spy satellites proved cheaper and easier to develop. <br /><br />Silverbird and Dynasoar were both influential in the design of the space shuttle and will probably be for any future spaceplanes.
 
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tomnackid

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"It would have been nice if they had gotten something like that developed. "<br />--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br />So i assume that you:<br /><br />a) Didn't live on the east coast of the United States during the 40s.<br />b) Were rooting for the Germans to win WWII<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />
 
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mlorrey

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It's not so much that, but that such an advancement would have spurred similar development early on of anti-ballistic TAV fighterplane systems and perhaps similar skip bombers by the US. If more had been developed during the war by the US, besides just the atom bomb, in advanced technologies, we might have ended the cold war earlier and had the funds to really develop the space program...<br /><br />One fatal mistake by Hitler was, in 1940, to cancel or delay many advanced concepts that would have developed industrial infrastructure for other projects like Silverbird. The Me262, for instance, and its jet engines, were put on the back burner for over a year and a half by Hitler, who suffered from a false hope of an early end to the war in his favor, mostly due to the exaggerated reports back to Berlin by those on the front and the ease with which he conquered so many countries on the continent.
 
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tomnackid

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Off topic, but Germany's only hope for winning the war was for the US to stay out of it. Something that looked distinctly possible in the 1930s. Very few in the German government thought that the US would be willing to side with the USSR to defeat Germany in a war in Europe. The Germans spent a lot of money, time and energy drumming up sympathy for the NAZI cause in the US.
 
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argosy

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I wasn't suprised by its technology, rather by the fact that it was developed(or rather imagined) in 1930s.<br />I was much suprised that somebody thought of going up back then...imagine if this thing flew. Its funny, since we're still having problems with similar technology.<br /><br />One thing I also found is that some prototypes germans were workin on were supposed to be powered by "ramjets"...Is this possible...?<br />The speed of this prototypes should have been around Mach 1.x -2.x ...
 
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tomnackid

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The Germans were big on ram jets. Not only are they fast (of course being fast is really the only option for a ram jet!) they can burn almost anything--a big advantage for a country with sever shortages of petroleum-based fuels. The Germans even developed some ram jets that ran on powdered coal!<br /><br />For a real wacky German vehicle take a look at the Focke-Wulf Triebflugen VTOL fighter. The rotors were powered by coal burning ram jets. I think landing would have been a nightmare. The concept is similar to the Lockheed and Convair VTOL "Tailsitters" tested in the 50s.
 
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craig42

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IIRC the Silverbird was delayed unitl Germany could build something worth carrying in its small payload to America(A-Bomb) Good thing some British/Norwegians destroyed that NAZI heavy water plant.
 
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rocketman5000

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I didn't say I wished they got it launched vs. the united states, but that they that they would have had a prototype. It took the germans a long time to get the ME-262 into the fight despite the face that it was ready much earlier. Also if I remember right it would have been a one way trip and was to carry a nuke. Therefore their industry wouldn't have been able to support a mass production by late in the war, and they didn't have nuclear armaments by wars end. <br /><br />and no I didn't live on the east coast in the 40's I live on the east coast in the 80's, 90's and today, which also means since I wasn't alive back then it would be hard to root for them. <br /><br />It is quite simple that if the plane had been developed aircraft might have developed in a different direction allowing for high speed planes for the masses, it is obtuse to twist my words outside of thier context to support your rightheous pulpit pounding attempting to make yourself look good <br /><br />mlorry understood what my quick not was meant to say without feeling the need to be negative
 
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mlorrey

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Not so sure about that. A 8,000 lb TNT bomb would have razed the stock exchanges on Wall Street. I believe the Silbervogel was intended to bomb New York, one would not have needed a nuke to do significant damage. Like 9/11, the Nazis understood where the real power center of America is.<br /><br />Also, like Billy Mitchell, they understood the strategic advantages gained by attacking the US, taking the war to North America: when Mitchell's bomb run on Tokyo took place, the panic it spread across Japan forced the Japanese military to pull back many military forces to defend the home islands, thus stopping the Japanese advance and weakening their vanguard. <br /><br />A major attack on US power centers by the Germans would have done the same thing for them on the war in europe: it would have slowed US shipments of fighter planes and AA guns to Britain and Russia, thus blunting allied air superiority and making it easier for Germans to attack bomber formations against them, and easier for them to launch bombing runs against both Britain and Russia.
 
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tomnackid

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<img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <---This means I was joking.
 
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scottb50

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One of the more sympathetic was Bushes grandfather by the way. He was the NAZI banker in the U.S. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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yevaud

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Correction:<br /><br />Billy Mitchell resigned from active duty in 1926, and passed away in 1936.<br /><br />Billy Mitchell<br /><br />You're thinking of Jimmy Doolittle:<br /><br />Jimmy Doolittle <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>
 
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mlorrey

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I always get those two mixed up, they had the same attitude of thumbing their noses at the establishment brass, and Doolittle was one of Mitchell's proteges.
 
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