Fission versus Fusion: 101

[jatslo]

You and bonzelite share philosophies; talked with him yet?

 

[yevaud]

Yeah, well, right you are.<br /><br />Smartie, you *do* understand why people might just lose patience? Example, "why don't you just read..."<br /><br />I studied astronomy, planetary science and geography in college. And I do keep up with it. It gets very annoying for people to keep saying that. Long before this thread even existed, I knew a great deal about the argument, and thinking on it.<br /><br />Next, you may well be an expert Chemical Engineer - and I will freely admit I know little of the science - but I *do* admit it. Odd then how few people will admit *their* ignorance of *this* subject. And when pressed, their answer as to how they know these things to be a fact is usually "well, I went to this website..."<br /><br />Maddening. People obtaining the wrong information, or placing it out of context, and then stonewalling from there.<br /><br />And that is my only, lone, sole beef about these science forums. Period. Finito. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[smartie]

Jatslo, <br /><br />Planetary nebula are huge clouds of ionised plasma.. Fact. So there is nothing wrong with planet sized balls of ionised plasma. The rapid planet formation theory suggests plasma cells formed first and then attracted in the 'dust' to form the proto-planets cores. <br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nebula

 

[yevaud]

<i>Planetary nebula are huge clouds of ionised plasma.</i><br /><br />Ah, no, they're not.<br /><br /><i>Fact.</i><br /><br />Delusion.<br /><br /><i>So there is nothing wrong with planet sized balls of ionised plasma.</i><br /><br />Okee dokey then.<br /><br /><i>The rapid planet formation <b>suggests</b> plasma cells formed first and then attracted in the 'dust' to form the proto-planets cores.</i><br /><br />No, it doesn't "suggest" that. And that's not how Protoplanets form out of a Protoplanetary disc either. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[jatslo]

There is ionized interstellar gas, and there is not ionized interstellar gas. <--- Fact; ionized particles are quite beautiful, are they not?

 

[yevaud]

When their ionization can be seen, say a Neon light, sure. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[jatslo]

I do not have a problem with that, but when I think of plasma, I think of lightning, so I stick to ion solely for political correctness only. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />

 

[jatslo]

A neon tube is a vacuum with ionized gas, and space is a vacuum, so space is a vacuum with ionized gas. Actually, I have a citation, but I am too lazy to go get it. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[zer01zero]

Hi Yevaud,<br /><br />I thought that I would weigh in on this conversation (not that I think you need any help, you are doing a fine job)<br /><br />I just wanted to say that I think the stuff being posted around here, by the uneducated and ignorant few, is the message board equivalent of dysentery. I have challenged both jatslo and micro10 to prove what they say and NOTHING has been forthcomming. That fact alone speaks volumes about the lies and misinformation that they spout.<br /><br />I first started lurking on this board more than a year ago because I wanted to learn and with the help of the educated posters I have (I actually cut-n-pasted your weather tute into a PowerPoint document for my daughter, hope thats ok ?)<br /><br />In short, just say "prove what you say" often enough and when they cannot, just like "Big Brain" they too will go the way of the Dodo.<br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[zer01zero]

On another note, I must say that I admire people like Saiph, Stevew and yourself for your patience. I think you truely want to collaborate and increase the collective awareness. While some are just "intelligence black holes" who's mere existance serves only to suck IQ points away from us all and cast them into the abyss

 

[mcbethcg]

This entire thread is an intelligence black hole. The Mods ought to eliminate it, but they are too sweet and caring for the egos of morons.

 

[jatslo]

mcbethcg, Yevaud, and zer01zero - If it is not too much trouble, could you all contribute, at least, to "Fission versus Fusion: 101" I have drifted off topic a few times too, which is easy to do in an entry level thread. That's right, 101 is entry level, and is by no means advanced in any way whatsoever.<br /><br />The Original Argument: "<font color="gold">My argument was not about whether or not fission and fusion take place in the Earth's Sun, but whether or not fusion is the primary source of energy that is released. I believe that a rather large number (99%, for example), of energy produced is a byproduct of primarily fission that occurs within the first (1%, for example), of our Sun's core.</font>"<br /><br />This thread was opened to resolve a previous conflict that Yevaud was involved in with bonzelite, who at the time was a new member. Please limit your discussions to Fission and/or Fusion, and please take your personal perceptions to the "Suggestions Thread".<br /><br />Thank You in Advance,<br /><br />JATSLO<br /><br />PS - I look forward to reading your thoughts on the subject matter.

 

[mcbethcg]

What I said is entirely relevant to the discussion. Its a broad comment that generally, most of the science here is fantasy. <br /><br />Disregard most of the diuscussion here. Read a science text book if you want to learn about it. Fission, Fusion, and stars like the sun are well understood topics.

 

[jatslo]

mcbethcg said, "...<font color="gold">Fission, Fusion, and stars like the sun are well understood topics.</font>"<br /><br />Oh, good, then you should not have too much trouble sharing your insight on the topic. I look forward to reading about your understanding of Fission and/or Fusion.

 

[mcbethcg]

Jatslo, you have posted 2650 posts in less time than I have posted 258. <br /><br />I learned long ago that it is futile to debate you, no matter how wrongly reasoned you are, or correct I am. I won't do it.

 

[yevaud]

What he said. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[jatslo]

That is because you don't have a chance in hell of winning and you know it. Face it, you lost.

 

[mcbethcg]

I have every chance of accurately telling you where you are incorrect.<br /><br />But I (And anyone else) have zero chance of getting you to understand those points, and if you did, you would not acknowledge it. Its happened many times.<br /><br />Not worth the trouble.<br /><br />I think your days are numbered though.

 

[jatslo]

Your posts are the ones that are going to get flagged, not mine. I am trying to keep focused on Fission and/or Fusion, but you just keep on trolling, and trying to pick a fight that you will not fight.

 

[mcbethcg]

"......trying to pick a fight that you will not fight."<br /><br />See how you don't make sense?<br /><br />I dont want to fight. I won't debate science with you, not anymore. I just want you to understand science before you try to teach it. Or post less often and stop mocking people that have the presumption to be... correct on their theories and facts.<br /><br />Its sickening to see what you have done to this fora.

 

[jatslo]

*sickening*, *their theories*, *teach it*, *post less often*<br /><br />Are you trying too put me to sleep? You are about as fascinating as elephant dung. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[mcbethcg]

Yes.

 

[jatslo]

I might split soon anyway, I am starting to get bored with this place, but don't get your hopes up.

 

[savagehenry]

Why are they lumping this in with Intelligent Design?<br /><br />Just because new evidence is being uncovered that shows that traditional theories have other possible solutions to the well known issues with them and perhaps compleatly different answers then what has been traditionally thought.<br /><br />Take the reviewed paper on Solids in the Sun<br /><br />http://web.umr.edu/~om/abstracts2005/IsotopesTellSunsOriginOperation.pdf<br /><br />Gasp!!<br /><br /><br />Would it be the first time in history that our understanding was widened?<br /><br />You hardened science guys never answer for the holes...and you consistantly ignore and cherry pick lines out of context...because obviously you are not paying attention ...because you think you know it all. It is a historical mistake that is often repeated over and over again.<br /><br />No I do not want to see magic maths.<br /><br />Not taking away the impressive archetecture or mental abilities it takes to do it... But you know that those calculations that are the thing one year...are then out worked the next by another group..<br /><br />And we constanly see some of the most prominant most experianced scientists on the EARTH say things like <br /><br />“Indeed there are details to be attended to, but they are<br />overshadowed by serious difficulties in the most basic concepts of nuclear astrophysics. On square one, the solar neutrino puzzle is still with us (chapt. 10), indicating that <b>we do not even understand how our own star really works.</b> On square two we still cannot show in the laboratory and in theoretical calculations why the ratio of oxygen to carbon in the sun and similar stars is close to two-to-one We humans are mostly (90%) oxygen and carbon. We understand in a general way the chemistry and biology involved, but we certainly do not understand the nuclear astrophysics which produced the oxygen and<br />carbon in our bodie

 

[nacnud]

<font color="yellow">And yes I know...they have found some neutrinos...but no where near what they are supposed to find.<br /><br /><font color="white">I though that the neutrino occilations solved this problem.</font></font>