Food for 7: 500-Days on Mars... Resource Requirements

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jatslo

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<font face="verdana">Food for 7: 500-Days on Mars... Resource Requirements<br /><br />I have not started analyzing the above topic yet; however, I am interested in opening deliberations, and debates, if necessary, in the matter. The following is what I am thinking:<br /><br />Short-Term Solutions:<br /><br />1) Intravenous (IV) Feeding<br /><br />2) Lunch Sack (Pack it in)<br />- MRE (Two Per Day Per Person) 7000lbs.<br />- 1-gallon; drinking water (one per day per person) 3500lbs.<br /><br />Long-Term Solutions:<br /><br />Biosphere<br /> - Human waste for Martian plant fertilizers.<br /><br />Q & A: How; When; Where; Why?<br /><br />Nutritional Requirements?<br />Weight?<br />Volume?<br />Means?<br /><br />The following is where I pulled 500-days from:<br /><br /><font color="orange">One of NASA’s reasons for going back to the Moon is to demonstrate that astronauts can essentially “live off the land” by using lunar resources to produce potable water, fuel and other valuable commodities. Such capabilities are considered extremely important to human expeditions to Mars which, because of the distances involved, would be much longer missions entailing a <font color="white">minimum of 500 days spent on the planet’s surface</font>( REF#14811891874 ).</font><br /></font>
 
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mikejz

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Umm lets say 2 MREs per person per day. Each weights about 1 lbs. So total 7,000 pounds. [sorry thought it was for a crew of 5]
 
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darkenfast

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MRE's do not incorporate large amounts of freez-drying. Descisions have to be made on that basis first.<br />Do you want the lightest and driest, or do you want water in the food to account for the inevitable losses in you re-cycling equipment. You'll need the extra water anyway.
 
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rogers_buck

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I had a similar thread yarns ago that nobody posted in. Of course my lead in was a recollection of a Japanese experiment where they turned human waste directly into edible food. Brown burritos for the red planet I think. At least while we see those people having such an incredible experience on the surface of mars we will be able to comfort ourselves in the knowledge of what they have to eat...
 
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CalliArcale

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I had a similar thread yarns ago that nobody posted in. Of course my lead in was a recollection of a Japanese experiment where they turned human waste directly into edible food. Brown burritos for the red planet I think. At least while we see those people having such an incredible experience on the surface of mars we will be able to comfort ourselves in the knowledge of what they have to eat...<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />I'm sure they added stuff to it. I mean, if you keep making food out of your own waste, logically you will eventually have removed all of the nutrition that the human digestive tract is capable of extracting. It might be a useful way to recycle fiber, though, or to bulk up a heavily fortified food so it seems more filling. I think we're ultimately going to have to use other organisms to process the waste back into something useful. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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chew_on_this

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<font color="green">Brown burritos for the red planet I think.</font><br /><br />Can't be much worse than Taco bell.
 
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jatslo

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<font face="verdana">Recycled waste would make great fertilizers for growing certain foods, so I will ad to biosphere in the opening post, unless someone objects. </font>
 
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darkenfast

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I expect that the only things re-cycled on a Mars mission will be air and water. Those are fairly straightforward and use existing technology. The idea of re-cycling food is a lot more complex and risky at this time. You have to allow for losses of air and water. The water can either be carried in tanks or be part of the food.
 
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nexium

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I'm glad you pointed out that fresh frozen food is not extravagant as it can be reguarded as as part of the water supply. We need a sizable excess of essentuals, otherwise some crew members will worry about runing out. The crew needs a treat type meal occasionaly to keep up moral. Neil
 
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dan_casale

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Seven people is a little small for a biosphere. Here is what I have collected. (long post. Usually a thread killer)<br /><br />GROUP #2 - Air Supply, Food production and delivery, Waste management, and Water supply.<br />This biosphere will be used as the primary food, air, and water supply. The biosphere will also be used to cleanup biological wastes.<br /><br />Assumptions:<br />---The green house will be used to reclaim/recycle all grey water.<br />---There should be at least two degrees of separation between the grey water and a food source.<br />---The green house will consume CO2 and produce O2.<br />---There is too much radiation on the surface of Mars to grow plants. Thus all lighting will be artificial.<br />---The atmosphere of Mars is too thin to grow plants. Thus the green houses will be pressurized and artificial air circulation will be provided.<br />CO2 may be filtered out of other compartments to enrich the atmosphere of the green house.<br />---One third acre of greenhouse will support 7 people and require ½ FTE of work.<br />---One acre of gray water marsh/meadow and composting piles will support 7 people and require ¼ FTE of work.<br />---One half acre of pond, chickens, and goats will support 7 people and require ¼ FTE of work.<br />---Each of the three areas must be separated from each other to prevent cross contamination. As the settlement grows similar areas, (ie. green houses), should not be combined. Although one worker may maintain multiple areas if proper procedures are followed to prevent cross contamination. <br /><br />Overview of processes:<br />---Grey-water: to swamp, to fish pond until evaporated.<br />---Human waste: to human waste compost pile, to swamp soil, to non-edible plants soil, to non-human compost pile, to edible plants.<br />---Non-human waste: to non-human compost pile, to edible plants.<br />---Animal wastes: to non-human compost pile, to edible plants<br />---Animal parts: same as human waste.<br />---Humidity: recovered from air, U
 
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jatslo

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<font face="verdana">That is pretty impressive work; that seven can work on a new 1/3-acre lot adjutant to the first complex. Double up to make four, double up to make eight, double up to make 16, and so on. Are you depending on the humans to produce CO<sub>2</sub> for the plants, or is a chemical plant going to provide those essentials?<br /><br />Might be easier to find a cave that we can seal and pressurize, as opposed to hauling in the structures, just a thought.</font>
 
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rogers_buck

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You know the Japanese fondness for extremes. They processed the "material" and added nutrients and flavoring. In the end it was perfectly good food. I think you are right about the fiber being what was recycle, but I don't recall - it was years ago. Strange, no commercial success...<br /><br />I think they ought to use an open loop supply system and take advantage of inflight resupply. Food, water, and other consumables could be launched years in advance and slowly accelerated using reliable ION propulsion at a low cost. The whole thing could be carefully arranged for crew and supplies to meet up along the way with matching velocities.
 
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dan_casale

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The whole process should come out to be about even. I think there might have to be some equipment to balance the O2 level by extracting or adding O2.
 
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dan_casale

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For the most part this is true, however, I don't think you want to camp on the surface of Mars for one big reason...Radiation. Mars doesn't have a magnetic field and the atmosphere isn't thick enough to stop very much radiation. So you will need to use something like this to "pipe" sunlight to the green house.<br /><br />http://www.energy.unr.edu/lighting/Default.htm
 
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nexium

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On quarter does not seem correct, as Mars is about 31.6% farther from the sun than Earth, so about half as much sunlight. Perhaps more than half as average losses in the atmosphere are less for Mars than for Earth. One quarter is optimistic considering the sunlight must pass though glass or other transparent medium to reach the plants. Mirrors can concentrate the sun light for the plants, but a lot of large steerable mirorrs are needed for 1/3 acre. When the mirors are unfavorable for the plants, they can be favorable to boost the output of solar panels or used as a solar furnace. Neil
 
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