future Mars environment suits/ clothing

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pyoko

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If we had a base on Mars, would we just wear really warm (perhaps breathable fabric) clothing, and only have a hard helmet and air tanks for the thin atmosphere? Or would it need to be a fully sealed suit (when going for a walk outside)? <br />If so, why? And what about the radiation and lack of a strong magnetic field?<br />You can go hard helmet diving to great depths and the only thing that is sealed is the helmet. The dry/ wet suit is not necessarily sealed at all. And it can be freezing underwater. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color:#ff9900" class="Apple-style-span">-pyoko</span> <span style="color:#333333" class="Apple-style-span">the</span> <span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span">duck </span></p><p><span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="color:#808080;font-style:italic" class="Apple-style-span">It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.</span></span></p> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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Unfortunately, your plan won't work. The average air pressure is way too low (0.7–0.9 kPa according to Wikipedia with Earth-Sea Level at 98 kPa). And if you want to visit Olympus Mons's crater, that pressure will be a near vacuum. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

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Yeah, we do a lot better in overpressure than underpressure. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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3488

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Hi pyoko,<br /><br />At the summit of Olympus Mons, that atmospheric pressure is at most holf of one millibar or<br />approx 1/2,000th the Earth's air pressure at sea level, so to all intents & purposes <br />Olympus Mons & the other Tharsis Volcanoes stick out into space.<br /><br />Even at the datum line (6.05 millibars), the atmospheric density is only about the same as<br />the Earth's at an altitude of some 30 kilometres above sea level.<br /><br />So really nothing short of a full spacesuit is required, for humans to be on the surface of<br />the Fourth Rock from the Sun.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>
 
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pyoko

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Why, though? Is vacuum bad for the skin or something? The head will be completely covered in a 'space suit'. The body will not be airtight, but warm.<br />So... bad for the skin? Do you explode or something?<br /><br />And another similar question about Titan: Can we simply wear the equivalent of a sturdy chemical suit and a breather (and warm clothing)? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color:#ff9900" class="Apple-style-span">-pyoko</span> <span style="color:#333333" class="Apple-style-span">the</span> <span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span">duck </span></p><p><span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="color:#808080;font-style:italic" class="Apple-style-span">It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.</span></span></p> </div>
 
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ashish27

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pyoko, even if only the tip of your finger is exposed to vacuum, your blood will start to boil and you will die instantly
 
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MeteorWayne

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That's a bit of an overstatement.<br /><br />I fingertip exposed would not cause all your blood to boil.<br /><br />Having your whole body exposed at once, might do that, but even then it might take a few or a few dozen seconds. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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kelvinzero

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Here is an nice wiki link if accurate.<br /><br />wiki link on unprotected effects<br /><br />essentially it says vacuum doesnt cause us to explode or blood to instantly boil or freeze.<br /><br />The main danger appears to be aspyxiation although it would kill you far more quickly than on earth. Maybe because you lungs are emptied?<br /><br />A breath mask cant help since you cant hold pressure in your lungs without damaging them. I have been wondering how long the human body could survive if oxygen was diffused into the blood some other way, ie an artificial lung connected to an artery working on bottled oxygen.<br /><br />
 
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adrenalynn

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From your own link: <br /><br />"a short term exposure to vacuum <b>of up to 30 seconds</b> is unlikely to cause permanent physical damage" *emphasis mine<br /><br />"Dissolved gases in the blood may come out of solution, and after <b>10 seconds</b> or so, decompression sickness (the bends) may result" *ditto<br /><br />"In the low pressure environment, gas exchange in the lungs would continue as normal but would result in the removal of all gases, including oxygen, from the bloodstream. After up to <b>15 seconds</b>, the deoxygenated blood would reach the brain, and loss of consciousness would result. <b>Death would gradually follow after two minutes of exposure</b> "<br /><br />"The subject later reported that he could feel and hear the air leaking out, and his last conscious memory was of the water on his tongue beginning to boil." <br /><br />I don't know about you, but I'm not quite ready to build a summer home in unprotected vacuum... Surviving for 90 seconds or so is not really in my "long term" catagory... <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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pyoko

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OK so instant death by sucking really hard on a fingertip is an exaggeration. So the main problem really is the lack of pressure on the lungs leads us unable to breathe out. SO in fact my original idea would work if it weren't for that (rather large) detail. Maybe some sort of breastplate to push the chest in?<br /><br />I want to get back to the Titan environment. I remember someone on here said that you would be able to walk around with just a gas mask and warm clothing (if it weren't for traces of poisonous chemicals in the atmosphere). Hence, warm clothing and a standard chemical suit would suffice on Titan? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color:#ff9900" class="Apple-style-span">-pyoko</span> <span style="color:#333333" class="Apple-style-span">the</span> <span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span">duck </span></p><p><span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="color:#808080;font-style:italic" class="Apple-style-span">It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.</span></span></p> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

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I think you might have missed the deoxygenized blood killing you just before the gasses in the bloodstream leave suspension and send embolisms to your lungs and brain killing you.<br /><br />I promise that neither are terribly pleasant. Having spent some rather non-quality time in a Hyperbaric chamber off the coast of California, I can point out with absolute certainty that even if caught early and the bends don't kill you - you'll sure as heck wish they had. And even a decade later, there are still lasting effects, primarily in my wrists and last knuckles of my fingers, and horrendous cramps in my ankles.<br /><br />No. Trust me. You don't wanna go there. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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brellis

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hi Adrenalynn<br /><font color="yellow">Having spent some rather non-quality time in a Hyperbaric chamber off the coast of California, </font>- I'm sorry about the pains you feel, but my curiosity meters are spiking. What sort of adventure put you in one of those? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>
 
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kelvinzero

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I certainly agree about the summer home comment. Still an interesting thought exercise.<br /><br />Mainly, I was wondering if a small surgical adaption could overcome this 15-seconds to unconciousness issue. If oxygen was mixed directly into the blood in or after the aorta I think it would get all the way around the body before reaching the lungs, which would still perform the important task of expelling CO2. The difference between 15 seconds and even a couple of minutes could be enough to save your own life.<br /><br />Not likely right now, but by the time we get anyone to mars who knows.<br /><br />Is there anything this hypothetical device could also instantly mix in to counter the problem of the bends? Online links only mention increasing the oxygen mix, which this would already do.
 
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adrenalynn

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Exotic-gas deep diving in the trench off Monterey Bay. The loads you're carrying in exotic gas diving can be a little funky to calculate, especially back in the tables-and-luck days. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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vandivx

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there was this thread here last year and everyone was soaping how vacuum is just fine for you and now its different all of sudden, I know we talked about short dips into open interplanetary space but still<br /><br />I think going with helmet only for shorter periods of time would be ok especially if you are not one of those health freaks as most people nowadays are<br /><br />however warm clothing as such wouldn't cut it I think, in shade you have too low temperature biting your calves from one side and they may be getting way too hot on the other, that's because you got very little atmosphere distributing the day heat around you<br /><br />therefore I would recommend some light whole body enclosing space suit with helmet separated (independent because that would have to more secure and pressurized) and once you have suited something enclosed, why not have some pressure in it for comfort and to help distribute the heat and allow temp regulator to work<br /><br />perhaps if you just went to have a pee outside on martian outcrop next to climatized headquarters maybe just donning helmet might do if you don't forget to make it into your sunny side LOL but that of course would depend if you rather risked some doze of UV radiation vs potential frostbite<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

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<font color="yellow">I think going with helmet only for shorter periods of time would be ok </font><br /><br />If you define "OK" as "being dead" - then yeah, absolutely. It's a great weight-loss program.<br /><br />I'm not really sure what part of "depleted blood/oxygen to the brain" and "embolism" and "deader'n a doornail in 3 mins" isn't being communicated? Or maybe the depressurization event that happened in land-based astronaught training where he didn't even make it to vacuum before they realized the error and started to repressurize, and he was still unconscious, knocking on death's door. Another minute, he'd have been an ex-astronaught. And that's WITH a full spacesuit, that was just LEAKING. Or the "my last conscious memory of the event was the water boiling on my tongue"?<br /><br />I don't generally define "not dying" as making me a "health nut" - but I guess one could make that argument? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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willpittenger

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There is a new type of super flexible spacesuit that might be better suited. It creates the pressure on the body with a very tight fitting skin suit. Basically, some elastic fibers squeeze you to simulate air pressure. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>
 
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pyoko

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That sounds pretty interesting. It it anything like the new 'liquid kevlar' armor the US troops are going to have soon?<br /><br />What about Titan and the need for suits? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color:#ff9900" class="Apple-style-span">-pyoko</span> <span style="color:#333333" class="Apple-style-span">the</span> <span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span">duck </span></p><p><span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="color:#808080;font-style:italic" class="Apple-style-span">It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.</span></span></p> </div>
 
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adrenalynn

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-268deg F is probably a bit more than "make sure you put on your longjohns before you mow the methane/ethene gas clouds, dear!" <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>.</p><p><font size="3">bipartisan</font>  (<span style="color:blue" class="pointer"><span class="pron"><font face="Lucida Sans Unicode" size="2">bī-pär'tĭ-zən, -sən</font></span></span>) [Adj.]  Maintaining the ability to blame republications when your stimulus plan proves to be a devastating failure.</p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ff0000">IMPE</font><font color="#c0c0c0">ACH</font> <font color="#0000ff"><font color="#c0c0c0">O</font>BAMA</font>!</font></strong></p> </div>
 
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tony873004

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-268 sounds uncomfortable, but Mars' atmosphere is very thin, so the air doesn't have much heat capacity. Under your spacesuit you probably wouldn't need very heavy clothes. Except for you boots. The ground has a high heat capacity and can drain the heat out of you quickly. So you'd need well-insulated boots.
 
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nimbus

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Why isn't it the opposite? If your lungs are optimized for 1 earth atm, and you find yourself in a smaller pressure environment, wouldn't that make your lungs more highly concentrated and thus expell that gas concentration to equalize with the outer vacuum? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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pyoko

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I meant Titan... −-179.45°C is not that cold. Certainly not too cold for a fellow in very very warm clothes. Why doesn't anyone answer my Titan question? I've asked it like 3 times already. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color:#ff9900" class="Apple-style-span">-pyoko</span> <span style="color:#333333" class="Apple-style-span">the</span> <span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span">duck </span></p><p><span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="color:#808080;font-style:italic" class="Apple-style-span">It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.</span></span></p> </div>
 
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shadow735

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In connection to space suits they are currently devolping a new generation of space suits that are tight fitting against the body as in no more bulky space suits, they can be wired with both wiring for electronics and possible muscle enhancing technology and warmth wiring ect.<br />The suit looked like a very thick diving wet suit.<br />I saw this on history channel or discovery, I forget but it looks cool, it is still in development but if and when it does become part of the space exploration it will greatly increase preformance and manueverability in space.<br />not to mention being able to get into and out of small spaces. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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shadow735

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yeah that is exactly it <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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pyoko

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That's pretty cool. Could these suits be configured to make movement harder to simulate 1G on planets that have low gravity? So that the muscles work at least partially normally. Would this even be a good idea? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p><span style="color:#ff9900" class="Apple-style-span">-pyoko</span> <span style="color:#333333" class="Apple-style-span">the</span> <span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span">duck </span></p><p><span style="color:#339966" class="Apple-style-span"><span style="color:#808080;font-style:italic" class="Apple-style-span">It is by will alone I set my mind in motion.</span></span></p> </div>
 
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