Griffin betrayal. Published e-mail

[frodo1008]

Perhaps all of the posters (as this is my first post on this thread, I really don't qualify here) should cut each other some slack here. I fnd it difficult to believe that Mike Griffin really meant to insult most of his current and past workforce. Either it was himself or someone else that wrote his speach and its wording was somewhat in error! I would rather believe that what he meant to say was that the political policies behind both the STS system , and the ISS were indeed flawed!! I would like to cut him some slack here and I also worked on the SSME's for the shuttle, and the Electrical Power System for the ISS! <br /><br />I would be the first to admit that his statement about the orbital inclination of the ISS is correct, but getting the help of the Russians was essential to getting the ISS funding though congress, and both the then president Clinton, and the administrators of NASA had no choice. As it has turned out getting the Russian help has proved even more vital to the ISS than we could have even dreamed it would be! If it wasn't for the Russian help the station would have crashed by now!<br /><br />The basic problem with the manned space program of NASA has nothing to do with the various advocacy camps that exist on these threads. The problem is that the American people want a manned space program with the costs of a Model T ford and the results of a new Hummer! What many of these people don't either know of don't wish to know of is that basically the real costs of such programs are dictated by the laws of physics, which are not in any way influenced by politics!! When we went to the moon with Apollo, we were spending 4% of the federal budget on the space program. NOW people expect even more while spending only some 0.7%. IT ISN"T GOING TO HAPPEN!!<br /><br />I guess I am even more extreme than many on these boards, but I believe we should stop all of this stupid (and I DO think it is stupid!) infighting that I notice on this thread and others, a

 

[wvbraun]

<i><b>Message from the NASA Administrator Regarding Space Station and Space Shuttle Comments</b><br /><br /><br />I'm sure you've seen the press coverage concerning my supposed comments on the space shuttle and International Space Station, beginning last Wednesday.<br /><br />I've been in Russia since the day the article came out, and have therefore missed most of the reaction to it, but I've received enough e-mail to realize that I didn't handle the situation well and have left some hurt feelings behind. So, I thought I should make the effort to clarify the situation, and this e-mail to all of you is the best way I know to do it.<br /><br />The attention-getting parts of the story were, of course, associated with the use of words such as "mistake" and "blunder" in connection with the shuttle and station programs. The press coverage has been such as to make it appear that I used those words to characterize the programs. In fact -- and I would hope that this goes without saying -- I did no such thing. I was asked by an interviewer if shuttle had been "a mistake," and I provided my answer, which addressed the difficulty of the design challenge and the paucity of funds with which it was undertaken. This answer was given in the article, and was quoted correctly. But the use of words such as "mistake" and "blunder," as well as the overall pejorative tone of the article, was not reflective of my remarks nor of the general context of the discussion.<br /><br />At the strategic level, I think all of you know that I believe we have been restricted to low Earth orbit for far too long and that the proper focus of our nation's space program should be the exploration of our solar system. I do understand that others will disagree. In that context, it is useful to recall Norm Augustine's observation that most people believe we should have a robust space program; it is just that no two people agree as to what that program should be! But it is my sense that this debate has been had and has b</i>

 

[nacnud]

At last! Sense!

 

[barrykirk]

Thank you frodo....<br /><br />Uh.... I'm embarrassed what does the acrononym CATS stand for.

 

[wvbraun]

Cheap Access To Space

 

[barrykirk]

Thank you for that post. I really needed to hear that.

 

[shuttle_man]

About time someone told Griffin what the right thing was to say.

 

[frodo1008]

Thank you vwbraun! I think that in essense Mike Griffin said exactly the same thing that I said, and he said it beautifully! This seems to me to be the usual ill efforts of the press in creating something out of context. I really think that Griffin does have the correct path and attitude. <br /><br />I really would like to see the space advocacy community stop bickering and get behind this effort as it seems to me that it IS indeed the best that we can expect at this time! If we don't then those that would kill all such space efforts will possibly succeed to the detriment of the future of all mankind!

 

[nacnud]

I agree.

 

[propforce]

<i>"... About time someone told Griffin what the right thing was to say. ..."</i><br /><br />It's called 'damage control' <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br />But I am following Frodo's advice to cut people some slacks <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[shuttle_rtf]

Brilliant. No other words required.

 

[propforce]

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=18259 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[wvbraun]

"About time someone told Griffin what the right thing was to say."<br /><br />I don't think so. Unlike you Griffin can articulate himself.

 

[wvbraun]

"Thank you vwbraun! I think that in essense Mike Griffin said exactly the same thing that I said, and he said it beautifully! This seems to me to be the usual ill efforts of the press in creating something out of context. I really think that Griffin does have the correct path and attitude."<br /><br />I completely agree.

 

[j05h]

Mr. Sipe and some of the other USA & NASA workers here read a lot like the French transportation workers that are currently on strike. They want France to recind hiring/firing laws and receive better benefits, all while continuing the status quo. <br /><br />Why aren't you government workers willing to innovate?<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[shuttle_man]

Where is there any mention of us being unhappy because Griffin made a mistake, that's clear, he wouldn't of sent out a retraction if not, we weren't getting enough benefits. Lack of respect must be damaging the reading skills of people on here, maybe that's why the bulk of posting here is on free space talking about monkey videos peeing into their mouths. Where people meet to discuss space and science? Should be where the jealous meet to discuss what their favorite band is or discuss if Star Trek is cool or not. These continued attacks on NASA and USA workers makes me assume that you are a bit upset about not being part of it?

 

[spacefire]

well that would be kind of hard since USA exists only to maintain the Shuttle. Do you ask mechanics to build planes?<br /><br /><br />I thought so... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[shuttle_man]

Yes, I wasn't aware people still didn't know that. Thank you.

 

[tomnackid]

First of all I got to say that I have a very low tolerance for whining from those who feed at the public trough! Saying that the Shuttle and ISS were strategic mistakes does not in anyway denigrate the people who worked on the program. Many, many battles througout history have been "startegic mistakes". It takes nothing away from the soldiers who did the actual fighting. <br /><br />If Mr. Sipe is bothered by having Mr.Griffin as a colleague he can easily rectify the situation by resigning from his goevernment job and battling it out in the private sector. <br /><br />I think the most telling phrase in Mr. Sipes whine-fest is "borders on heresy". Heresy is a crime invented by the status quo to punish those with new ideas.

 

[franson_space]

So you wouldn't whine if you had put your life into a job for 30 years and thought you were doing well only for the new boss to say it was all a mistake?<br /><br />Don't think so Jack <img src="/images/icons/crazy.gif" />

 

[tomnackid]

I HAVE worked for businesses that made mistakes and went under. It didn't mean MY work was no good. Of course I was upset, but I didn't whine that the whole world should change just so I can keep my job. And why would I want to keep a job at an organization that is pounding its head against a wall anyway? Maybe I'm just blessed with an abundance of self confidence! <br /><br />Obviously you people who take the "Griffin says you all suck" attitude did not read the original story and listen to his coments. He said the shuttle was a STRATEGIC mistake, not a technological one.<br /><br />Besides, I'm I supposed to waste my tax dollars so some rocket guys won't get their wittle feelings hurt. F that! Piss or get off the pot as my father used to say!

 

[franson_space]

1) NASA hasn't gone under.<br />2) The guy you talk about didn't whine in order to ask the world to chnage to keep his job.<br />3) You're backing Griffin up with something he didn't say. It was what he didn't say that was offensive. He proves that by the need to do that other e-mail where he does apologise and correct his comments.<br />4) Sounds like you're whining.

 

[tomnackid]

So lets keep the shuttle program going so wittle Bwian Sipes won't get his feelings hurt! Gee maybe if Wittle Bwian Sipes had been as outspoken on January 28, 1986 about launch conditions as he is about keeping his job the shuttle program may have gone differently. Maybe if wittle Bwian Sipes had demanded that the leading edges of Columbia's wings be made of something less brittle than carbon with the same force that he demands apologies from Griffin then maybe the shuttle program would have gone different. Maybe if wittle Bwian Sipes and his buddies had volunteered to take a pay cuts we could continue to afford to fly his national treasure. But you know what. NASA is not in the business of making flying monuments. It is in the business of exploration and research and development.<br /><br />As much as I love the space shuttle it is a white elephant. The powers that be made some guesses about how the launch industry would develop and those guesses turned out to be mistakes.<br /> <br />Yes mistakes.<br /><br />Its not a dirty word! Lets all say it together M I S T A K E S.<br /><br />Its ok to make mistakes. The only people who DON'T make mistakes are people who do NOTHING! The only problem with making a mistake is when you don't admit it, learn from it and move on.

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">So you wouldn't whine if you had put your life into a job for 30 years and thought you were doing well only for the new boss to say it was all a mistake?</font>/i><br /><br />The problem, <i>again</i>, is that as a government monopoly there are no corrective mechanisms. In a real commercial industry, within just a few years everyone would have realized STS was not close to living up to its epectations and never would. In a real commercial industry STS would have been cancelled by 1986.<br /><br />Mr. Sipes shouldn't be whining, he should be thanking his lucky stars that the public was fooled for so long that he could collect a paycheck for 30 years, pay a mortgage, send his kids to college, or whatever he has done with his ill-gotten gains.</i>

 

[spacester]

<font color="yellow">So you wouldn't whine if you had put your life into a job for 30 years and thought you were doing well only for the new boss to say it was all a mistake? </font><br /><br />That is correct, I wouldn't whine. <br /><br />Many, if not most, folks in the private sector have had to suck it up and carry on through much worse than some comments in a newspaper by the new high muckity-muck. Of course they are not used to the situation where you "do the same job for 30 years" - market pressures force constant innovation, re-evaluation and change change change.<br /><br />No one outside of government does the same job for 30 years. Deal with it. Welcome to the real world.<br /><br />The fact that the Shuttle / ISS workforce has to learn to do the same is not going to evoke any sympathy from those of us not privileged enough to be part of our nation's space program.<br /><br />Houston, it's time to wake up and smell the coffee.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>