House to VOTE on Senate Bill Wed Sept 29, 2010

[rockett]

LET YOUR REPRESENTATIVE KNOW YOUR THOUGHTS!!!!

To arms! To arms! Tell them today!
phone 202-224-3121
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

Chairman Gordon Statement on House Consideration of NASA Reauthorization

(Washington, DC) – Today, Committee on Science and Technology Chairman Bart Gordon (D-TN) offered the following statement:

“I anticipate that the House will consider the Senate version of the NASA reauthorization on Wednesday. I still believe that the bipartisan Compromise language we released is a better approach...

...It has become clear that there is not time remaining to pass a Compromise bill through the House and the Senate. For the sake of providing certainty, stability, and clarity to the NASA workforce and larger space community, I felt it was better to consider a flawed bill than no bill at all as the new fiscal year begins. I will continue to advocate to the Appropriators for the provisions in the Compromise language.”

http://science.house.gov/press/PRArticle.aspx?NewsID=2926

Truce called in space tug-of-war

The Space Access Society said House passage of the Senate version "is no sure thing," especially because the rules will probably require passage by a two-thirds vote. There's still time to let your lawmaker know what you think, via phone (202-224-3121) or e-mail. http://www.house.gov/zip/ZIP2Rep.html

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/09/27/5190940-truce-called-in-space-tug-of-war

We may have them on the run if we get busy!!!!!!

 

[mr_mark]

Good to see the House is taking up the Senate bill. I hope that it passes tomorrow and NASA can finally move on to HLV. We have not had a big booster since the Saturn 5. It's about time!

 

[mr_mark]

By the way to arms with what? Ares was never going to be delivered in it's current state and everyone afiliated with space knew that. It cost too much and could not be delivered until 2030 by some estimates. TIME TO MOVE ON! A new inline HLV using a combination of shuttle technology and the direct approach is the best answer. Bottom line, NASA is going with some form of Ares 5 or Direct. Ares I is dead thank goodness. Time for commercial (Spacex and Boeing) to step up. By the way the Orion capsule will be fully funded under the senate bill. It can ride on a Commercial vehicle from ULA or on the new NASA HLV. We will soon have 3 spacecraft Dragon, CST-100 and Orion. The future looks great!

 

[rcsplinters]

Glad to see they are voting on something. The Senate version was my favorite except for the commercial funding aspect. My objections to NASA funding for startups with dubious business models remains strong. Federal charity is available for commercial space flight without leeching NASA's limited funds.

I will also not be surprised that we'll see development proceed on ARES I as the path to a heavy lift booster will likely leverage those technologies and configuration. I doubt ARES I will ever fly as a booster for Orion, however, remaining largely developed but never produced.

Perhaps we start along the path to some melding of the Direct 3.0 and the HESF plans. First, this authorization bill must pass. Then the appropriations must be made and that will raise an equal if not greater debate. Failure of either could still send us to a CR and I have no idea what that would mean for 2011. Hopefully this authorization bill will restore some path forward after the months of chaos inflicted on our great HSF program by the administration.

 

[mr_mark]

Dubious? how do you define dubious? Spacex's Falcon 9 has already launched to orbit and is a real vehicle and is human rated to current Nasa standards. Lockheed Martin is well along with it's Orion Capsule and ULA has a long launch history with it's Atlas and Delta launch vehicles. There is nothing dubious at all with any of these companies. Boeing, Lockheed Martin and ULA all are commercial companies that have long track records of high performance standards. Remember commercial does not just mean Spacex. Even Spacex has delivered as both their vehicles have flown to orbit, Falcon 1 and Falcon 9.

 

[rcsplinters]

Dubious? how do you define dubious?

I didn't want the thread to descend into another SpaceX fanboy cheering frenzy, so I'll make only this one response I was merely stating what I dislike about the Senate version but could tolerate. Believe me, this aspect of the Senate version will get hammered behind the scenes as it has been for the last month or so.

By dubious, I meant the business model. You have to have profit in a commercial setting, we agree on that. SpaceX has a LOT of work to do to produce a human rated capsule and booster. While the fanboys don't want to hear that, Musk is keenly aware of what remains and the risk involved. He's not sure about sufficient market. He's worried about liability. He's concerned about long term impact of a crew loss. All these impact the business model. Only one commmercial operation for HSF has ever existed and that is government owned an operated. Do I think they can put a man in orbit? Yes. Do I think they can turn a 10 - 20% return on capital? Frankly, I don't know but doubtful based on ISS traffic alone. So the business model is most assuredly dubious and financially risky. Its why you don't see venture capitalists lined around the block to offer money. This is why Musk has resorted to federal charities. Fact remains, he can get that cash from places other than cash starved NASA.

 

[Valcan]

Dubious? how do you define dubious?

.

All that aside why do we need billion dollar per launch boosters again?

I want ONE person to explain that in a logical sentence.

Its like having one airline tell you they will take you to your destination with your bag for 11.50, heck yes!!!

But wait there is that guy charging $150.50 for exactly the same thing.

Why would you chose the more expensive one.
Oh yea plus the first guy will havea flight available next thursday the other guy says he's not sure next month or so....

 

[rcsplinters]

I think that answer has been provided many times. First, ISS is capped and frankly needs only a rent to fly solution with limited ferry capability making SOYUZ a good match for the miision.. Essentially NASA's HSF mission is beyond LEO. NOBODY has human mission plan to do that but NASA. Activity beyond LEO is going to be low volume - hence very expensive. Very large mass to LEO is required for BEO operations. Nobody of consequence or in a decision making capacity debates that. The Senate doesn't question it. The House doesn't question it. NASA doesn't question it. The administration doesn't question it, they just wanted to pretend to do think about it. HLV + low volume = very high cost.

It really helps to separate the ISS rental car from the BEO mission preparation efforts and design. The latter requires vastly greater capability. More capability = Greater costs. For myself, I see the Senate and House taking one of the few paths open to them which enables BEO capability. It is that capability that NASA has been ordered to develop.

 

[EarthlingX]

This is about keeping jobs and providing entertainment, not about BEO. In my opinion, this House trick was a sham at the beginning, to avoid compromise between WH plan and Senate designed 'HLV now'.

This will most likely finish as a CR.

 

[rockett]

The Senate's NASA Bill: What It Says
http://www.space.com/news/senate-nasa-authorization-bill-explainer-100929.html

Congress's budget battle leaves NASA without a clear mission
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/28/AR2010092805201.html

Griffin to House: just say no
http://www.spacepolitics.com/2010/09/28/griffin-to-house-just-say-no/

The Senate's NASA Bill: What It Says
http://www.space.com/news/senate-nasa-authorization-bill-explainer-100929.html

 

[EarthlingX]

SDC : Commercial Space Executives Speak Out for NASA Plan

By Clara Moskowitz
SPACE.com Senior Writer
posted: 28 September 2010
01:25 pm ET

As lawmakers debate NASA's future, some advocates for commercial spaceflight have banded together to produce a video supporting President Obama's vision for the space agency.

The eight-minute video, produced by the Space Frontier Foundation, lays out arguments for Obama's proposal to redirect NASA's agenda and spur private companies building spaceships that could transport astronauts to low-Earth orbit. [Video: Commercial Space Advocates Speak Out]

...

"The real role of government is to fund the things that are too expensive, too high-risk, too high-return – the places where industry is afraid to invest or can't afford to invest," Debra Lepore, president of the consulting firm DFL Space LLC, says on the video.

The advocates say they worry about America's future in space.

"I don't want to live in the last days of a declining once-great society. I want to live in the first days of the next great human adventure," says Jeff Greason, founder of XCOR Aerospace in Mojave. "Space is a frontier that can occupy humanity for thousands of years to come, and I am very excited where we are at the threshold where we can choose to make that happen."

SDC : House Vote on NASA Spending Bill Expected Today

By Tariq Malik
SPACE.com Managing Editor
posted: 29 September 2010
08:41 am ET

After months of debate, a NASA spending bill is expected to appear for a vote on the House floor today (Sept. 29).

House lawmakers are expected to vote on a version of the NASA authorization bill passed by the Senate in August, instead of a compromise bill floated last week by Congressman Bart Gordon (D-Tennessee), who chairs the House subcommittee on science and technology. If no vote occurs, the measure would have to wait until after the Nov. 2 elections.

"I anticipate that the House will consider the Senate version of the NASA reauthorization on Wednesday," Gordon said in a statement released Monday (Sept. 27). [NASA's New Direction: FAQ]

...


http://www.washingtonpost.com : Congress's budget battle leaves NASA without a clear mission

Wednesday, September 29, 2010

AMERICA'S SPACEFLIGHT program is about to enter a vacuum: a vacuum of vision. Even with expected passage of a resolution to provide NASA with its annual operating budget, it appears increasingly unlikely that Congress will be able to provide a guiding mission for NASA before it adjourns.

...

This flawed bill only proves that the biggest challenges now facing NASA are on the ground. Members of Congress, hoping to protect jobs in their districts, have fought against the shutdown of the Constellation manned spaceflight program, which a blue-ribbon commission on the future of human spaceflight found to be doomed by excessive ambition and insufficient funds.

...

In these straitened economic times, there is little logic to support an ambitious -- and ambitiously underfunded -- plan for NASA that continues its heavy-lift rocket programs, allocates a limited amount of funding for commercial spaceflight and keeps NASA's eyes lifted to the dream of manned flight beyond low-Earth orbit.

A better compromise would allow NASA to invest in research and aeronautics and to salvage technology, expertise and resources from the Constellation program, and use them to develop capacity for a time when America is in a better position to aim upward.

 

[rockett]

Senate preferable to House Bill...

 

[EarthlingX]

They both suck.

 

[menellom]

They both suck.

Neither bill is perfect, but the Senate is by far the best of the available options.

 

[EarthlingX]

They both suck.

Neither bill is perfect, but the Senate is by far the best of the available options.

Take out requirement for the immediate HLV development, increase money for commercial space and R&D, define goals, not destinations, and it might be worth something, or in other words, compromise with WH, not with House of Representatives.

The best is original, President's plan. That is no option ?

 

[rockett]

Take out requirement for the immediate HLV development, increase money for commercial space and R&D, define goals, not destinations, and it might be worth something, or in other words, compromise with WH, not with House of Representatives.

The best is original, President's plan. That is no option ?

Evidently not. Even his own party has turned on him, on this one, notably House Science and Technology Committee Chairman Bart Gordon (D-Tenn.) ...

 

[EarthlingX]

http://www.spaceref.com : NASA Administrator Calls Congressional Vote an Important Step Forward in Space Exploration

Source: NASA HQ

Posted Wednesday, September 29, 2010

NASA Administrator Charles Bolden issued the following statement:

"We are on the verge of an historic vote in the House of Representatives on a comprehensive NASA authorization bill that is expected to chart the future course of human space flight for years to come. I am hopeful that S. 3729 -- the National Aeronautics and Space Administration Authorization Act of 2010-- will receive strong support in the House and be sent onto the President for his signature.

"Earlier this year, President Obama laid out an ambitious new plan for NASA - one that helps blaze a new trail of innovation and discovery. His plan would invest more in NASA; extend the life of the International space station; launch a commercial space transportation industry; foster the development of path-breaking technologies; help create thousands of new jobs; and embark on a fundamentally more ambitious strategy to expand our frontiers in space.

"Passage of this bill represents an important step forward towards helping us achieve key goals the President has laid out. If passed, the bill would help put the U.S. space program on a more sustainable trajectory and inspire a new generation of Americans to pursue careers in science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. This important change in direction will not only help us chart a new path in space, but can help us retool for the industries and jobs of the future that will be vital for long term economic growth. NASA appreciates all of the hard work and effort that has gone into advancing this legislation.

"I also salute our dedicated employees for continuing their good work and keeping their eyes on the prize during these important deliberations. Our workforce has proven time and again that it can meet any challenge. Congress and the President are once again calling on us to step up and move this nation forward in space exploration.

"NASA is grateful for the longstanding, bipartisan support that it receives from the Congress. There is still a lot of work ahead, especially as the 2011 appropriations process moves forward, but the continuing support for NASA ensures America's space program will remain at the forefront of pioneering new frontiers in science, technology, and exploration."

 

[holmec]

Senate preferable to House Bill...

Agreed!

 

[Valcan]

They both suck.

Neither bill is perfect, but the Senate is by far the best of the available options.

Agreed just wish there was more funding for commercial thought. House bill is absolute BS though.

 

[holmec]

Viewing C-span House of Rep feed for NASA vote.

 

[holmec]

Viewing C-span House of Rep feed for NASA vote.

nothing yet..but here is the link to the day's proceedings

http://clerk.house.gov/floorsummary/floor.html

 

[EarthlingX]

www.huffingtonpost.com : The Battle for the Frontier -- A Historic Moment

Rick Tumlinson

Space expert and entrepreneur
Posted: September 29, 2010 11:39 AM

Over the last months, the space field has witnessed one of the most brutal and hard fought battles in its history. In the space equivalent of a guerrilla war, those trying to change this nation's program into an effective and frontier opening enterprise have been fighting almost cubicle by cubicle -- and vote by vote -- to stop those in the space establishment more interested in looking busy while feeding on your tax dollars from killing the dream of opening space.

...

And what is this amazing tool that can transform the future of an entire nation? Simple. It is you, the people. The imagination and drive of the American people is a force of nature, and until recently, one that was not applied to the challenge of opening space. Instead of creating access to space for the people by building off of its taxpayer funded programs and infrastructure, our space program has instead fed on our funding and locked us out of the process. Contrast this with the internet: largely created by government agencies and the military, the technologies and the net itself were thrown open to the people, in effect subsidized by the government, and look at what has happened. (Oh, you are, as you are reading my words on it.)

...


www.spacenews.com : Garver, Bolden Urge Passage of NASA Authorization

By Amy Klamper

Wed, 29 September, 2010

WASHINGTON — After months of bipartisan wrangling on Capitol Hill over the future of NASA’s manned spaceflight program, the agency’s top two officials urged support for the Senate version of a three-year NASA authorization bill headed for a vote in the U.S. House this evening, even as a group of House lawmakers voiced strong opposition to the measure.

“We truly, truly believe that the time has come for us to have some clarifying direction,” NASA Deputy Administrator Lori Garver said during a House aerospace caucus luncheon here Sept. 29, asserting the Senate measure, S. 3729, incorporates “the very best parts of the administration’s proposals,” including a top-line spending authorization of $19 billion in 2011, a call to increase funding for aeronautics and science, extending the international space station through at least 2020 and a sustained program of exploration beyond low Earth orbit. “We encourage all of you to support a bold and vibrant future for NASA by supporting the authorization bill.”

...

 

[mr_mark]

SENATE BILL PASSES HOUSE VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A BIG THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO CALLED THEIR CONGRESSMAN AND SUPPORTED NASA HLV AND COMMERCIAL!

 

[rockett]

Find out how your Representative voted (and remember in November)

S.3729
Title: National Aeronautics and Space Administration Authorization Act of 2010
Sponsor: Sen Rockefeller, John D., IV [WV] (introduced 8/5/2010) Cosponsors (None)
Bill Text:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?c111:2:./temp/~c1113I7uCc::

General Information
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:S.3729:

VOTE:
HOW EACH MEMBER VOTED
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll561.xml

Summary

Yeas
Democratic: 185
Republican: 119
TOTAL: 304

Nays
Democratic: 64
Republican: 54
TOTAL: 118

Not Voting
Democratic: 5
Republican: 5
TOTAL: 10

 

[holmec]

SENATE BILL PASSES HOUSE VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A BIG THANK YOU TO EVERYONE WHO CALLED THEIR CONGRESSMAN AND SUPPORTED NASA HLV AND COMMERCIAL!

Its quite amazing that commercial space has gotten the support from NASA and now Congress in such a few years.

Congrats to NASA, HLV team, New Space companies. Let's go get some asteroids!