How did Nowak get in the Astronaut corps while mentally ill?

[willpittenger]

Does someone have details on how severe her illness was? The article I saw said that there was documentation but I did not see any. As someone with mental problems, I would hope that some with minor problems would be able to get around them. However, if the problem is severe enough to provide for a insanity plea, would that person still qualify as an astronaut? I assume that a pilot would never get in. However, what about Mission Specialists like Nowak? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[lampblack]

They psychologically screen the astronauts when they're first employed. But one of the problems that has surfaced as a result of the Nowak fiasco, however, has to do with the lack of meaningful follow-up.<br /><br />People's psychological states change. Nowak could have been perfectly healthy mentally when she first joined the astronaut corps -- but then reacted badly to unusual chronic pressures in her life. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

Love sickness can make even sane people flip out. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

Affairs of the heart can trump decades of training and rational service.<br /><br />I have seen folks at 12 Steppers go 'over the edge' far more dramatically than Nowack did.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[rsa_4]

As with all criminals, when it looks like all is lost, simply cry temporary insanity. I'm hoping she doesn't get away with an insanity plea, if she is proven guilty.

 

[spacefire]

she didn't really hurt anyone.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[j05h]

<i>> she didn't really hurt anyone..</i><br /><br />Are you kidding? Nowak pepper-sprayed Shipman in that parking lot, had a ranged weapon and a blunt weapon on her person. She also had gloves, duct tape and contractor bags in her car - which are the implements for a "black bag" operation. Even if she was nuts and inexperienced, she had prepared for an assassination. <br /><br />She didn't drive 900 miles wearing diapers to have tea and discuss the weather.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[askold]

I wonder if she has one of those posters on her office wall - "You don't have to be crazy to work here, but it helps".

 

[MeteorWayne]

Uhh, you seem to have your pictures confused. She looks like something that escaped vogons lab.<br /><br />Pretty wouldn't be any of the top 20 words I would think of! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[docm]

I think her claiming "insanity" will elicit the reverse of sympathy from the jury. That's the history when you look back at such claims. <br /><br />OTOH if she got a mostly female jury and claimed she had PMDD (premenstrual dysphoric disorder - a severe form of PMS) she'd have had at least a shot at some kind of diminished capacity finding. There are fMRI (functional MRI) studies showing in "the week before" PMDD patients frontal lobe activity decreases, and therein are many inhibitory functions. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[vulture2]

Screening can do only so much. Some mental disorders (i..e. Schizphrenia) characteristically appear in adolescence and are unlikely to appear de novo in an adult. Others (i.e. bipolar disorder) commonly appear in mature adults with no history of mental illness. It isn't that uncommon for people _your_ life may depend on (doctors, nurses, pilots, police officers, soldiers) to develop mental illness. There is simply no failsafe predictor. Many can be effectively treated, and some people are able to achieve great things despite clinical disorders.

 

[propforce]

<font color="yellow">How did Nowak get in the Astronaut corps while mentally ill?</font><br /><br />.... She was pampered.... <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

<i>Screening can do only so much. Some mental disorders (i..e. Schizphrenia) characteristically appear in adolescence and are unlikely to appear de novo in an adult. Others (i.e. bipolar disorder) commonly appear in mature adults with no history of mental illness. It isn't that uncommon for people _your_ life may depend on (doctors, nurses, pilots, police officers, soldiers) to develop mental illness. There is simply no failsafe predictor. Many can be effectively treated, and some people are able to achieve great things despite clinical disorders.</i><br /><br />Very true. Buzz Aldrin comes to mind.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

What are you suggesting about Buzz? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[usn_skwerl]

that he's a demi-god? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Exactly what do you mean by that?<br />The definition of demi-god does not seem to apply to him. <br /><br />Edit: clarification: <br /><br />Actually the (inaccurate) westen definition does apply.<br /><br />Someone who is honored.<br /><br />What is the problem with that?<br /><br />Are you intending it as some kind of insult that Buzz should be respected because he risked his a** on the first flight to step on the surface of the moon?<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Buzz Aldrin is well known to have suffered from alchoholism and commonly stated to have suffered bipolar disorder. More accurately however, is condition was depression, rather than true bipolar.<br /><br />http://bipolar.about.com/od/businessmenpoliticians/p/buzzaldrin.htm<br /><br />Buzz's story is a testimony to the fact that great achievement does not preclude a person suffering from a mental illness, nor does mental illness preclude great achievement.<br /><br />Jon<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[usn_skwerl]

no MW, i believe you misunderstood me. i have a lot of respect for buzz aldrin. i always have. sure, he might have been, or could currently be an alcoholic, but yes, the fact that he risked his arse back in the day. he's highly respected by many. im right there with him...and them. <br /><br />my father in law still thinks we didnt land on the moon, but is the type to not be convinced by technological examples. (laser ranger, LRO, etc). he bases his opinion in that "we could barely see the president clearly on abc, cbs, nbc, but we're getting video from 200,000 miles away?"...hes set in his ways..i cant and wont even try to convince him otherwise... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

For sure, family ties and friendships are much more important than proving a point.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[ozspace]

Didn't Buzz's problems emerge after Apollo 11? As someone said mental states can and do change over a life time and also as a result of significant events (flying to the Moon?)

 

[JonClarke]

I believe that is correct.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[frodo1008]

When you consider the kind of pressures that are placed on astronauts, the really incredible thing is that far more of them don't crack in the manner that Nowak did!<br /><br />Try to remember that NASA is dealing with human beings here, and not bottle caps!<br /><br />PS: Not meaning to comment on your post Jon, you are just the last poster on the thread at this time. My post being a general comment only.

 

[JonClarke]

I agree! The presures on these people is immense. I don't think it is helped by a coporate culture whereby any reporting of human failure or problems will probably result in the person being permantly grounded by the medicos is not one condusive to the management of such problems. <br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[vulture2]

>>dealing with human beings here, and not bottle caps<br /><br />This is true for all of us, not just astronauts. They are just noticed more when they go over the edge. <br /><br />Nowak has reportedly pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity. This is seldom successful, since the legal definition of insanity has little to do with mental illness and is virtually impossible to satisfy. The one thing in her favor is that the case isn't in Texas, where you can leave out the "virtually".

 

[thereiwas]

You don't suddenly "get" antisocial personality disorder, and possible sociopathy from stress. There are indicators in childhood. These people are intelligent enough to know how to appear normal on tests - they know how to "act" normal. And that's what they are doing all the time: <i>acting</i> normal. <br /><br />There is no treatment for the condition. They are always dangerous.