How long before we have full-time medical staff in space?

[docm]

For adding a physician to the crew I would agree, but it's far more sensible for long duration missions like Mars to have at least one person with medic training and a remote (or autonomous) surgery robot, especially if they can get its mass down to 25 lbs. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>for long duration missions like Mars to have at least one person with medic training and a remote (or autonomous) surgery robot<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />On a trip to Mars, the tele-operated robot is a no-show. The signal delay can be up to 20 minutes each way. You had better be really close to Earth for that option. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Signal delay makes a tele surgery a no go on missions beyond the earth-moon area.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />If you are in lunar orbit or on the surface, even the signal delay to the Moon could be fatal -- especially if you are the patient and you are on the far side of the Moon. All it would take is a minor nick of an artery.<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Why would a medical crew get a cancer in space? cancer don't just happen without any prior signs. Astronauts go through detailed health checks now (at least they should) and they will be even more detailed and reliable in the future. You got likelihood of cancer in the near future... you don't go on mission. simple.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Wanna bet? I figure the #1 cause of cancer amongst the astronauts going on such missions will be radiation. Good luck screening for that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

It will only be a matter of time before we have to deal with a trauma case. All it will take is a tumble down a slope and someone's arm or leg will be broken. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[thereiwas]

"#1 cause of cancer amongst the astronauts going on such missions will be radiation." And that won't turn up for years later unless they are caught outside during a solar storm.

 

[willpittenger]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>caught outside during a solar storm.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />The problem with that is you need some guinea pigs to prove that the shelter is adequate. Any volunteers? It might be better to build a miniature sample with the correct amount of shielding and sensors "inside" very early on. That would allow the system to get a track record.<br /><br />BTW: See the rover thread. Some of the rovers mentioned were ala Apollo -- that is unpressurized. In fact one was a modified Segway. Only the pressurized rovers would provide any radiation protection other than what the suits could provide. Even in a pressurized rover, protection would be trivial and I doubt there would be time to return to base. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[docm]

<font color="yellow">On a trip to Mars, the tele-operated robot is a no-show. The signal delay can be up to 20 minutes each way. You had better be really close to Earth for that option.</font><br /><br />Which is why the work on autonomous robot surgery units is important. An Earth-bound physician could select the specific procedure and under the supervision of the medic the robot could do the procedure, halting at significant way-points for its progress to be evaluated on Earth.<br /><br />Closer than you think. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[dragon04]

I think the addition of medical facilities depends on the distance from Earth, or the number of people in LEO.<br /><br />Space agencies go to great pains to make sure they're shooting relatively healthy people into space as things stand right now. They do as much as they can to mitigate the need for a doc out there.<br /><br />People can be trained to treat the large majority of problems that might come up in fairly short order. Even a paramedic with a little extra training, the right drugs and equipment, and a doctor on the other end of the video feed could do most anything.<br /><br />As others have stated, I think advanced robotic surgery is the best answer. Let's look at a trauma for instance. One surgery might require a general surgeon, an orthopedic, vascular and neurosurgeon all for one patient.<br /><br />Can't have a doc from every specialty on every mission or every base. Robots would excel in just this case.<br /><br />More problematic will be things like extreme blood loss. But I can envision ensuring that missions would have the equipment to separate different blood products such as plasma, packed red blood cells, etc, and enough of the personnel who could be universal blood donors. It would be a great advantage for everyone on a Mars Mission to be of the same blood type and RH Factor.<br /><br />Again, at least for the forseeable future, it's almost mandatory that only very healthy people are sent on long missions. Things like coronary artery or other arterial/vascular disease have to be ruled out for the explorers.<br /><br />Another thing to be considered is the medical equipment itself. A lot of it is very large, very bulky, and perhaps not robust enough to withstand the forces of launch.<br /><br />Drugs have shelf lives. Some lose their efficacy much faster than others, but it'll be a problem on any long duration mission outside of LEO. Diabetics, and the hypertense need not apply.<br /><br />I wonder if certain potential conditions on such long term, distant miss <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[docm]

For most blood loss situations there are synthetic bloods with very long shelf lives coming to market. Packed cells etc. have very short shelf lives. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[vulture2]

>>All it will take is a tumble down a slope and someone's arm or leg will be broken.<br /><br />I do not deny the potential for fractures, but this does not mean the capability for orthopediac surgery is required.<br /><br />First, there is nowhere we can land in space where the gravity is more than 1/3 what it is on earth, so falls are less likely to cause injury. Second, if the fall is energetic enough to cause a severe injury, the suit will likely lose pressure, making the incident nonsurviable. <br /><br />Broken arms and legs, while they're often treated surgically, can also be simply immobilized until surgery is available, even for several months. Once the subject is weightless, on the way home, immobilization is actually much easier. Orthopedic surgery requires rigouous sterility and, to cope with all the potential procedures, a massive array of specialized tools. I do not feel it is realistic to suggest that a small space outpost or vessel will have anything more than casting material available, which is essentially the case in the antarctic.. <br /><br />In one case in the antarctic a creman's knee was shattered by a block and tackle during a severe storm aboard ship. The knee was simply immobilized in a cast until he could be evacuated. Probably that will be the most practical approach in space as well. <br /><br /> />>"I wonder if certain potential conditions on such long term, distant missions won't see "preventive surgery" such as appendectomies for everyone prior to actually launching the mission."<br /><br />While I believe this has actually been done for some terrestrial explorers, there is no proof the appendectomy prevents more complications than it causes. As far as prevention goes, there's a simpler strategy. Most illnesses increase in frequency with age, so if you want to avoid illness, the easiest way is simply to send a young crew. It's no accident that in two different cases, the person who had to be evacuated from the South Pole due to ill

 

[dragon04]

<font color="yellow">For most blood loss situations there are synthetic bloods with very long shelf lives coming to market. Packed cells etc. have very short shelf lives.</font><br /><br />I'm well aware of the synthetic blood products on the horizon, and that's going to make a huge difference in the world of trauma, not to mention blood replacement during surgeries. No worries about blood borne pathogens, blood bank supplies, etc..<br /><br />But in the case of a Mars Mission, an entire crew with either the same blood type, or the ability to be a universal blood donor is the most practical option. The human body is the container. No extra mass, IOW.<br /><br />However, I'm certain that synthetic blood products will fly on such missions once they're perfected and actually in everyday use. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

Simulated space missions today (performed in underwater habitats to acheive the same sort of isolation) include things like simulated laparoscopy to demonstrate that non-medical personnel can, with advance training and the guidance of a real surgeon over a commlink, perform fairly serious surgeries. For a Mars mission, the problem is more significant given that the ground support won't be quite as live due to the round-trip signal delay. But it should be doable. It's better to have a professional surgeon, but in a pinch, most folks are capable of doing surgery. It's not ideal, and you'd never do it in a hospital, but in an emergency it's a whole lot better than letting the person die. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[barf9]

Not until there is a triple digit population in space at all times.