How many times has Earth orbited the sun?

[Admin]

We worked out how many trips each of the solar system's eight planets has taken around the sun over the past 4.6 billion years.

How many times has Earth orbited the sun? : Read more

 

[George²]

That means Mercury has orbited the sun around 18.7 billion times more than Neptune has.

Something is much wrong with author's algebra.

 

[billslugg]

The Solar system is 4.5 billion years old.
Mercury orbits once per 88 days or .24 year
Mercury has orbited 18.7 billion times.

Neptune orbits once per 60,190 days or once per 165 years.
Neptune has orbited 27 million times.

18.7 billion minus 27 million is 18.67 billion.

I do not see an error.

 

[George²]

The Solar system is 4.5 billion years old.
Mercury orbits once per 88 days or .24 year
Mercury has orbited 18.7 billion times.

Neptune orbits once per 60,190 days or once per 165 years.
Neptune has orbited 27 million times.

18.7 billion minus 27 million is 18.67 billion.

I do not see an error.

Difference is ~670X

 

[billslugg]

The problem is imprecise phrasing. The article says "18.7 billion times more".
This can be interprted as a difference, in which case we subtract the number of Neptune orbits from the number of Mercury orbits.

It can also be interpreted as you have, which is a ratio of the number of orbits.

Both are correct but the phrasing is wrong since it is imprecise.

 

[George²]

The problem is imprecise phrasing

Yes, the correct comparison is the ratio, which is calculated by dividing the two numbers, not subtracting.

 

[billslugg]

Comparing the ratios is valid. Comparing the difference is also valid. One must simply state which one they are referring to. The original phrasing can be interpreted either way.

 

[George²]

Comparing the ratios is valid. Comparing the difference is also valid. One must simply state which one they are referring to. The original phrasing can be interpreted either way.

I do not agree. When a "times" difference is mentioned, the only action allowed is ratio. Here there is no free will of the individual to interpret and act as he himself decides. It's math, math has logic and rules that apply.

 

[Helio]

Given their assumption, the ratios are logical.

The assumption, however, is that these orbits existed after the first 100 million years, but this is not likely a fair assumption. No model exists that explains all the planetary orbits, as well as, inclinations. Some models have Jupiter starting at 3 AU, migrating to 1.5 AU, then moving out to 5AU. Saturn being in tow during these migrations.

 

[billslugg]

We are confusing two different meanings of the same word, "times".
It can refer to "multiplying one thing times another" or it can refer to a difference in how many times some "thing" has happened.
In this case, the original phrasing is imprecise. Either answer is correct. This is a bad situation and the fault is entirely that of the writer.

 

[rod]

FYI, Helio post #9 is accurate based upon my on studies and readings about the solar nebula and formation of the solar system using that model. The space.com article does present jostling around taking place when the planets, including our gas giants started to settle down and evolve into more stable orbits. However, such statements about the beginning of our solar system can be compared to other, extrasolar systems known today.

The exoplanet.eu site shows 888 star systems with multiple planets ranging from 2-8 exoplanets.

Catalogue of Exoplanets

Sortable and filterable catalogue of the exoplanet discovered so far.

exoplanet.eu

The NASA archive site shows 946 such systems.

NASA Exoplanet Archive

exoplanetarchive.ipac.caltech.edu

Some interesting examples are the 7 exoplanet system at TRAPPIST-1 or the recent report of a six exoplanet solar system with super-earths. There are examples of solar systems where the known multiple planets all orbit closer than where we see Venus or Mercury today.

The TESS-Keck Survey XVII: Precise Mass Measurements in a Young, High Multiplicity Transiting Planet System using Radial Velocities and Transit Timing Variations, https://arxiv.org/abs/2312.04635

Presently I do not see any of these multiple planet systems that look like the configuration in our solar system and no examples or analogs of moons formed via a giant impact scenario. There is plenty to chew on in exoplanet studies now and how we look at the beginning for our solar system and scenarios for planet migration or jostling around for a good position around the Sun

 

[Helio]

Some interesting examples are the 7 exoplanet system at TRAPPIST-1 or the recent report of a six exoplanet solar system with super-earths. There are examples of solar systems where the known multiple planets all orbit closer than where we see Venus or Mercury today.

These are the expected low-hanging fruit since they are the easiest to be found since their orbital periods are quick so only days are needed to catch them in, say, a transit, in lieu of years, which is the case for most outer planets.

I would bet a dollar to a donut that a large percentage of the multiplanet systems have their planets in a resonance chain, thus making their orbital disturbance or migration into the star highly unlikely.

It will take years to catch those tougher to find exos, I assume.

 

[rod]

These are the expected low-hanging fruit since they are the easiest to be found since their orbital periods are quick so only days are needed to catch them in, say, a transit, in lieu of years, which is the case for most outer planets.

I would bet a dollar to a donut that a large percentage of the multiplanet systems have their planets in a resonance chain, thus making their orbital disturbance or migration into the star highly unlikely.

It will take years to catch those tougher to find exos, I assume.

"These are the expected low-hanging fruit since they are the easiest to be found..."

My note, because they are closer to the host star, perhaps easier to discover but not *expected* when comparing to the solar nebula model used to explain the origin of our solar system, planet mass distribution, and architecture.

Solar system-exoplanet scientific synergies in the context of Horizon 2061 science questions about Planetary Systems and of the programmatic landscape

Until the detection of extrasolar planets around solar-like stars, the solar system was our only example where to gain detailed insights into the formation and subsequent evolution of a planetary system, study its working processes and search for the emergence of life. Today, thousands of...

ui.adsabs.harvard.edu

"Until the detection of extrasolar planets around solar-like stars, the solar system was our only example where to gain detailed insights into the formation and subsequent evolution of a planetary system, study its working processes and search for the emergence of life. Today, thousands of extrasolar planets and hundreds of multiple-planets systems are known, which surprise us by their large diversity. Yet, a planetary system similar to our own, including planets which harbor life, remains to be detected..."

IMO, comments like this in exoplanet studies should be made clear to the public not using phrases like *expected*. Many of the super-earths, hot jupiters, and configuration of various multi planet systems are difficult to explain using the solar nebula model MMSN.

 

[Helio]

It would be interesting to see a timeline on the expectation levels for any exoplanet. Stars were not really understood as Sun’s not too many centuries ago. The “Copernicus principle” (often not that helpful) would argue for exoplanets. Given the broad difference in stars, I would expect a fairly broad expectation for planets., not to mention the broad range in solar planets. But when would most expect this?

 

[rod]

It would be interesting to see a timeline on the expectation levels for any exoplanet. Stars were not really understood as Sun’s not too many centuries ago. The “Copernicus principle” (often not that helpful) would argue for exoplanets. Given the broad difference in stars, I would expect a fairly broad expectation for planets., not to mention the broad range in solar planets. But when would most expect this?

Some discussion like the questions here is found at this report.

'Modest, humble, and uncommonly smart': How a Soviet mathematician quietly solved the mystery of planet formation, https://forums.space.com/threads/mo...solved-the-mystery-of-planet-formation.63390/

Post #2 has a reference to the 1977 MMSN used for our solar system and distributions of planets and masses in the postulated gas disc. There is apparently numerous revisions since then, too many for me to track

 

[Helium3]

In around 4.5 billion years, the sun will have swollen outward to reach Earth's orbit and transition into a red dwarf star, which will destroy Mercury, Venus and Earth.

Our Sun will never be a red dwarf - Red Giant yes, White Dwarf yes, Black Dwarf yes again.

 

[George²]

In around 4.5 billion years, the sun will have swollen outward to reach Earth's orbit and transition into a red dwarf star, which will destroy Mercury, Venus and Earth.

Our Sun will never be a red dwarf - Red Giant yes, White Dwarf yes, Black Dwarf yes again.

Good catch . Because I was disappointed with the quality of the article, I didn't read to it's end all the way through and missed this BS.

 

[Helio]

IIRC, the Sun’s mass loss as it bloats into a red giant is great enough to cause the orbit to migrate outwards, avoiding angering in.

 

[Adoni Yannop]

In around 4.5 billion years, the sun will have swollen outward to reach Earth's orbit and transition into a red dwarf star, which will destroy Mercury, Venus and Earth.

Our Sun will never be a red dwarf - Red Giant yes, White Dwarf yes, Black Dwarf yes again.

You are correct Helium3!! Our Sun will grow to a Red Giant and leave a white dwarf about the size of Earth but 200,000 times denser than Earth that can accrete up to 1.41 total solar masses resulting in a type 1a Supernova or cool to a Black Dwarf over infinite time if accretion rate slows or stops!!

You might find the exact physical mechanics that generate gravity and store dark energy that in 5 Billion Years will transform our Sun to a Red Giant interesting below!! Please, Enjoy!! And Happy Holidays!!

The Proofs About My Suggestion That Gravity Is The Direct Function Of Mass And The Rate At Which The Matter Particles Of The Mass Heat Up!!):
1): Take Our Own Sun As An Example Of Gravity Generation As Our Sun’s Matter Heats Up!!):
A): We Are Given That Our Sun Formed From The Collapse Of A Molecular Hydrogen-Helium Cloud At 10 Degrees Kelvin!!
B): We Are Given That For The Past 5 Billion Years That Our Sun Has Been Heating Up And Generating Gravity!!
C): We Are Given That Our Sun Will Heat Up By 6% Per Billion Years For The Next 5 Billion Years While Generating Gravity!!
D): In 5 Billion Years); We Are Given That Our Sun Will Start Cooling From 7777 Kelvin To 3000 Kelvin While Net Emitting The Stored Anti-Gravity/Dark Energy Stored Inside The Nucleon, Electron And Neutrino Indestructible Mass-Energy Vessel Permeable Hovering Sacs In The Form Of Compressed GP1 Aether Particles That Were Stored During The 10 Billion Years That Our Sun Heated Up And Generated Gravity Blowing Off Half Its Mass Leaving A White Dwarf Remnant About The Size Of Earth At 200,000 Times Earth Density!!
E): One Proof That As Matter Cools And Net Expels GP1 Aether Particles); Dark Energy Is Released Is The Red Giant Phase Of Our Sun’s Life Cycle And All Red Giant Stars!!

2): From Observations Of Bullet Clusters We Know That Gravity And Dark Matter Gravity Stays With The Star Matter And Dark Neutrino Matter Heating Up From The Radiant Energy Of Stars And Not With An Equal Amount Of Cooling Hot Gaseous Matter Left Behind As The Two Galactic Clusters Separate!!

Above 1 & 2): Coincidence Or Direct Proof That Gravity Is A Direct Function Of Mass And The Rate At Which The Matter Particles Of The Mass Heat Up And That As Matter Particles Cool And Net Expel GP1 Aether Particles); Dark Energy Is Released Like By The Cooling Hot Gases Equal To The Mass Of The Stars Of A Bullet Cluster And The Cooling Gases At 7777 Kelvin When Our Sun Will Begin To Transform To A Red Giant!!

3): From The Discovery Of The DiPole RePeller Void In 2017): We Are Given That Lowering The Energy Quotient Per Cubic Meter In A Void Releases Measurable Dark Repulsive Energy As The Matter Including Dark Neutrino Matter In The Void Cools And Net Expels Compressed GP1 Aether Particles Creating A Void With Repulsive High GP1 Aether Particle Pressure System!!

4): Suggestion): As Superclusters Crunch And Energy Density Per Cubic Meter Increases And As Nucleon Matter In All The Stars And Neutrino Dark Matter Heats Up By Net Compressing GP1 Aether Particles Inside The Matter Vessel Sacs While Reducing The Volume Of Space): We Generate Increasing Low GP1 Aether Particle Pressure Throughout The Supercluster As We Are Given That Gravity And Dark Matter Gravity Will Be Generated By The Reduction In GP1 Aether Particle Pressure Relative To The High GP1 Aether Particle Pressure Of Expanding Voids!!

5): We Are Given That As The Great Attractor And The Shapley Attractor Crunch And Energy Density-Vacuum Energy Increases Per Cubic Meter); Matter Gravity And Dark Matter Gravity Is Generated In The Attractors That Causes The Local Galactic Group, The Virgo Galactic Centric Cluster And The Virgo Supercluster To Be Pulled At 341 Kilometers/Second Towards The Attractors); While The Cooling DiPole RePeller Void With Decreasing Vacuum Energy Per Cubic Meter Pushes Us At 290 Kilometers Per Second Towards The Great Attractor For A Net Total Peculiar Velocity Of 631 Kilometers/Second For Our Virgo Supercluster And Our Local Galactic Group!!

6): We Are Given That Low Air Pressure Hurricane Systems Develop At The Equator And That Hurricanes Intensify From Solar Radiant Heat And Warm Water!!
From The Given Above): I Suggest That The Heating Up Of Matter Particles Results In Low GP1 Aether Particle Pressure That Results In Low Air Pressure And/Or Gravitational Force Is Generated As Potential Dark Energy And Mass Is Stored In Matter Particle Permeable Sacs!!
And At The Earth’s Poles We Are Given That As Matter Cools High Air Pressure Systems Develop As Compressed Net GP1 Aether Particles Pulsate Out Of Nucleon, Electron And Neutrino Pulsating Hovering Permeable Indestructible Vessel Sacs Resulting In High GP1 Aether Particle Systems That Transform Air Particles To High Air Pressure Systems As They Cool!!

7): Side Note): If You Look At A Picture Of A Low Air Pressure Hurricane System On Earth And A Picture Of A Low GP1 Aether Particle Spiral Galaxy System In Space Side By Side); You Will Find The Pictures Are Nearly Identical Because Both Are Low GP1 Aether Particle Systems!!