Humanity has yet to build a true Spaceship

Page 2 - Seeking answers about space? Join the Space community: the premier source of space exploration, innovation, and astronomy news, chronicling (and celebrating) humanity's ongoing expansion across the final frontier.
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SteveCNC

Guest
bdewoody":4mcyxoif said:
90% of what has been posted on this thread has nothing to do with the OP's original statement. What constitutes a true spaceship?

I think a lot of the ideas presented are more along the component level needed to build a long range space ship . An extremely strong permanent magnet might be the answer to radiation shielding and plasma control so I wouldn't go as far as to say that it has nothing to do with the op's original idea . But as with all things , their time will come but other technology needs to come first . My belief is that LEO belonging to private enterprise will facilitate that and when the next leap in technology comes from it , many more things (as of yet conceived even) will be possible including long range ships .
 
E

EarthlingX

Guest
I would just like to note, that above posted fusion concept works in the atmosphere, so 2000s Isp is not that bad, but i think Skylon/LAPCAT is closer.

This might not be the best thread, so feel free to re-post or move it to more appropriate place :

http://www.onorbit.com : Space Tugs: Filling The Space Jobs Gap and Privatization Too!
Submitted by keithcowing on Sun, 06/13/2010 - 14:58.

oo8668368w.jpg


John K. Strickland, Jr: Developing a near-term small space tug for LEO and station use is one option - look where it could get us.

US space workers are currently faced with both the loss of the Shuttle program (correctly set in motion by the Bush administration years ago), and also by the temporary gap in space jobs caused by the probable cancelation of the Ares Program. Understandably they are all very concerned about their personal future, and also the seeming end of the manned space program. There is a way to at least partly alleviate both of these problems: (one financial and the other perceptual).

What is clearly needed is a fast-paced program to replace the shuttle's capability with the existing heavy launcher (Atlas and Delta) capabilities and a new LEO space tug (LEOT). There are a number of required components to such a program.

1. Make sure that any payloads launched to LEO can be located, mechanically acquired and safely captured by the tug.
2. Build a set of 3 LEO tugs that can retrieve a payload from anywhere in the space station's orbital plane (within a degree or two of the plane. We assume that the tug might weigh up to 20 tons with some stored propellant on board. It could thus be launched itself by one of the Atlas or Delta Heavies.
3. Build a small propellant depot that could be docked to the space station on a long boom. The depot would have venting safety systems to protect the station from being "spun up" by any uncontrolled leakage and would store only non-hypergolic propellants due to safety. The depot could alternately have a small engine and be placed near the station; it could follow the station during any re-boosts using its own propellant. The small depot should have enough capacity to re-fuel the LEO space tug.
4. Design the mini-depot to be able to re-liquefy its propellants as fast as they boil off; with dewar-style tank designs and sunshades to reduce the boil-off rate. The depot would be powered by its own solar panels. Adequate electrical power is critical to being able to re-liquefy the propellants.
5. The propellants stored could be LOX and RP1 or Methane, to reduce the higher power levels needed to re-liquefy liquid hydrogen.
6. Design the depot so it could be launched by one of the current (Atlas or Delta) heavies.
7. Create a COTS-like competition to build a tanker system using any of the existing non-heavy booster configurations to replenish the depot. As part of the deal, the government would agree to launch service guarantee contracts with the winning company (a specified number of launches during a specified period of time at a specified price per launch).
8. Manage the program all-up so that all components become available for use at about the same time.

Such a space tug development program has lots of advantages.

1. It would have a near-term effect on reducing the space job problem.
2. It would soon replace the capacity of the shuttle of delivering heavy cargos and large modules to the station. This would allow resumption of near-term planning and construction of new space station modules such as the critical centrifuge facility, and additional crew hab space.
3. Initiation of such a concrete program would quickly demonstrate the current administration's intent to pursue human space operations.
4. It would demonstrate and prove out the in-space re-fueling system required for beyond-LEO exploration, and quickly gain us invaluable experience needed for building larger depots and tugs.
5. It could be modified for crew rescue, or, with a docked hab module, create a crew rescue vehicle that could rescue any crew stranded in or near the space station's orbital plane.
6. It would stimulate into existence the system of small tanker vehicles that would be require to re-supply the larger fuel depots that would be built after 2020.
7. It would provide greater flexibility and safety in re-boosting the space station if the VASIMR engine system is not implemented by then.
8. Much larger versions of it (High Earth Orbit Tugs (HEOTs) would be able to reach Geosynchronous Earth Orbit and lunar orbit and repair or move problem communications satellites like the currently drifting one, which is now menacing other satellites. It seems crazy that we have this enormous global multi-billion dollar investment in comsats, with still no way to repair, refuel or control them other than with remote radio commands.
9. The same larger tug could be used as the basis for an LEO - to High Earth orbit and lunar orbit in-space ferry system, with return of the tug to LEO facilitated by the use of aero-braking and subsequent orbital adjustment (circularization). This large re-usable tug would replace the expendable earth departure stage of the Constellation. It would open the way for a similar depot-based infrastructure to be built up in the Geostationary and Lunar orbits, which would then allow relatively inexpensive access to the lunar surface. The HEOT tug would be recovered by slow, multi-pass aero-braking, returning to a LEO station and depot.
10. Progress is being made at Ames and other centers which will allow the design of narrower aero-capture (single-pass) crew return vehicle designs, able to return to LEO from GEO and beyond, without the very wide and hard-to-launch shape of a cone-shaped Apollo or Orion capsule. This will allow the "service module" portion of the crew vehicle to remain as an integral part it during aero-capture into LEO, making the whole vehicle re-usable. The HEOT would return separately from the crew vehicle via the slow aero-braking method; both would rendezvous with a station and depot.
11. The combination of a large tug, Orion-derived crew vehicle designed for aero-capture and compatible habitat module would thus lead to the ability to take crews far beyond LEO and GEO, such as to asteroids or Mars orbit. Much of the expertise that went in to the design of the Orion capsule could be used in expanding the tug/crew vehicle/habitat design. An Orion capsule all by itself is obviously of little use in long-distance missions. It would need a propulsion module and a hab module for such trips, where a larger tug could serve as the propulsion system. Such a whole in-space transportation system based on separately launchable crew vehicle, propulsion and hab modules would be much easier to design and launch than an integral system. These vehicles would not be used for Earth to orbit and back transport. They just need to be placed into LEO before they can be used!
 
E

EarthlingX

Guest
I posted this in Missions and Launches, but it fits here too, i just added one more quote :

http://www.federalspace.ru : Roscosmos Head Speaks About Possible Usage of the ISS for Future Missions to the Moon and Mars during Traditional Tea Party with the New Crew
:: 15.06.2010

This time, traditional tea party of Roscosmos Head Anatoly Perminov with the crew of the International Space Station took place in the Cosmonaut Hotel at Baikonur.
Anatoly Perminov and other representatives of the industry’s management spoke to the ISS-24 expedition crews - prime - Fyodor Yurchikhin (Roscosmos), Shannon Walker (NASA), Douglas Wheelock (NASA)),
And backup - Dmitry Kondratiev (Roscosmos), Paolo Nespoli (ESA), Сatherine Coleman (NASA).
The Soyuz is slated to fly from Baikonur to the station on June 16, at 1:35 MSK.

Roscosmos Head presented official ISS watch Fortis to the crews.
In response, Fiodor Yurchikhin presented the photo of the crew to Mr. Perminov. Roscosmos Head keeps the photos of each crew flying in the station in his office, until the crew comes back. “Each day, coming to office, I look at the proto of the station crew, and then I get a report about the ISS status”, Roscosmos Head says.

Perminov shared his impressions about the recent visit to ILA-2010 in Berlin and Russian exhibition in Paris.

He stated that an issue about future ISS operations had been discussed in Berlin. In particular, there was a proposal to develop an ISS-based platform where cosmonauts and astronaut could assemble a space vehicle of several modules to be flown to the Moon or Mars. “We won’t need heavy launchers in this case, no need to get concerned too much about the propulsion… This program seems to be very interesting for the other states, as well. It was supported by ESA’s DG and European Commission”, Perminov said.

«I would be happy to know your opinion about this program after the space mission is completed», he added, addressing the crew.

«We see the station of the next generation as an assembly experimental facility», Roscosmos Human Spaceflight Directorate Alexey Krasnov stated. «We would prefer achieving it with the partners. On the other hand, we are ready to commence this research effort alone. The first step is development of a space vehicle, which may be rather small, but capable of flying away and coming back to the station».

«It would be interesting also if cosmonauts assemble it», Roscosmos Head added.

The crew liked the idea. Yurchikhin proposed to use a cargo vehicle for this purpose. He also reminded that: «a returned vehicle can be built on the basis of a transport one».


 
N

neph00

Guest
In regards to the OP (Apologies, I didn't bother most of the thread between it straying into politics and else on page two noticing it had strayed into politics), I, sadly, have to turn to another example in science fiction, but one I'm quite fond of. In Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars, the ship constructed for transporting the first wave of colonists to Mars is called the Ares, and its of fairly realistic design.

The main body of the design consisted of eight toruses, hexagonal structures made by connecting modular compartments that wern't much more than re-purposed fuel tanks with life support thrown in, connecting them into the hexagons, then connecting all of those to a central shaft made of the same compartments, attaching all that to a power source/heat shield/thruster assemblage, and spinning the whole thing to simulate gravity.

I can't recall if the ship was powered by solar or nuclear but it doesn't matter, this is just a fiction. Realistically, I think a nuclear power source would be much more capable, especially for a ship of such a size. What I like about the design is its modularity. I'm also much in favor of electrical ion engines, such as the VASIMR, although constant thrust powerful enough would make rotating the ship uncomfortable and possibly unnecessary. In any case, the big pro to take from it is its modular design. You could make a 100 torus ark ship capable of moving a few thousand people, or a single torus corvette for a small research crew.
 
C

Crossover_Maniac

Guest
A 30-m diameter asteroid would provide more than enough material to build your true spacecraft. Might be able to do it with the right 10-m diameter asteroid. It would be a good thing to start building when we start mining asteroids.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

TRENDING THREADS

Latest posts