Iridium ? Yes, it still exists.

[job1207]

<p>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/28/AR2008092802223.html?hpid%3Dsec-tech&sub=AR</p><p>" Last week, Iridium announced an agreement to merge with a so-called blank check company, a transaction that will give the sat-phone firm a $500 million cash infusion and allow it to wipe nearly $150 million in debt from its books. The deal, which must be approved by regulators, is scheduled to close in early 2009. It would clear the way for Iridium to begin building and launching a new generation of satellites to replace the 66 aging ones that are orbiting 485 miles above the Earth. The new constellation is projected to cost $2.7 billion, Iridium officials said."</p><p>So, I see that you folks still do not read the Washington Post. Nevertheless, this is big for the missions people, and launch people, whomever they may be, in the future.&nbsp;</p><p>The article does not say if the 66, yes SIXTY SIX launches are included in the current inventory of scheduled launches, but I doubt it, since the LM, BA push to build private rockets stemmed from this LEO communication system and the proposed Internet's use of space.</p><p>Now, 2.7 divided by 66 is only $40 million per. So, I am not sure if this article is correct. I am sure that ALL of these satellites need to be replaced at some point, and these folks are in a position to fund them, over time. I suspect that the $2.7 Billion is for near term costs. We will see how it plays out.&nbsp; Afterall, it cost $6 Billion to build in the first place.&nbsp; </p><p>"Iridium's constellation consists of 66 low-earth orbiting (LEO), cross-linked satellites operating as a fully meshed network and supported by multiple in-orbit spares. It is the largest commercial satellite constellation in the world."</p><p>&nbsp;http://www.iridium.com/about/about.php</p><p>66 Satellites IS the entire system. According to the Iridium web site. There WAS a time that folks completely wrote off this as a source of future launches.&nbsp; </p><p>So, for you folks wondering if there will be launches for your systems to support, the answer is, yep, more than previously thought.&nbsp; </p><p>&nbsp;</p>

 

[MeteorWayne]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/28/AR2008092802223.html?hpid%3Dsec-tech&sub=AR&quot;&nbsp; Nevertheless, this is big for the missions people, and launch people, whomever they may be, in the future.&nbsp;The article does not say if the 66, yes SIXTY SIX launches are included in the current inventory of scheduled launches, but I doubt it, since the LM, BA push to build private rockets stemmed from this LEO communication system and the proposed Internet's use of space.Now, 2.7 divided by 66 is only $40 million per. So, I am not sure if this article is correct. I am sure that ALL of these satellites need to be replaced at some point, and these folks are in a position to fund them, over time. I suspect that the $2.7 Billion is for near term costs. We will see how it plays out.&nbsp; Afterall, it cost $6 Billion to build in the first place.&nbsp; "Iridium's constellation consists of 66 low-earth orbiting (LEO), cross-linked satellites operating as a fully meshed network and supported by multiple in-orbit spares. It is the largest commercial satellite constellation in the world."&nbsp;http://www.iridium.com/about/about.php66 Satellites IS the entire system. According to the Iridium web site. There WAS a time that folks completely wrote off this as a source of future launches.&nbsp; So, for you folks wondering if there will be launches for your systems to support, the answer is, yep, more than previously thought.&nbsp; &nbsp; <br />Posted by job1207</DIV><br /><br />It is not 66 launches. IIRC, between 2 and 4 satellites were included on each launch vehicle depending on ths capacity of the launcher.</p><p>Edit, I stand self corrected.</p><ul><li>Boeing's Delta II rocket was the primary carrier, initially launching 45 sats, five at a time. (9 launches)</li><li>Russia's Proton rocket is the next larger carrier, having launched 21 sats in groups of 7 each. (3 Launches)</li><li>China's Long March 2C/SD launcher launched Iridiums in groups of two satellites per launch. The Long March 2C/SD had been used to maintain the constellation. (Spares and replacements)</li></ul><p>So that's less than 2 dozen launches in total.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

<p>This would be very good news if it comes to fruition.</p><p>How could SpaceX fit into this?&nbsp;According to Astronautix.com, the current Iridium satellites are 689 kg. &nbsp;At 420 kg to LEO, Falcon 1 wouldn't work, but the Falcon 1e, with a larger fairing, can do 1010 kg and Falcon 9 will be able to put 12,500 kg into LEO.</p><p>New business for all launch providers would be a good thing.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[Testing]

<p>The Iridium Constellation originally had a projected life of 7-10 years which has now been met. There have been failures in orbit but there are still dormant spares. I have heard that the decsision of who will build Iridium 2 will be decided early 2009, between LMSC and EADS Asrtium. They need to move soon to consereve continuity of service as it takes time to build that many sat's, integrate newer technology and get them launched.&nbsp; $$$$$$</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[aphh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>but there are still dormant spares. <br /> Posted by Testing</DIV></p><p>Having a vivid imagination, that line immediately made me think about satellite in hibernation, which after a long period of deep sleep receives the wake-up call from the ground control and starts to wake up gradually, a led lighting up here and there, then an antenna turning to point to a target...<img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-smile.gif" border="0" alt="Smile" title="Smile" /></p><p>It's like in a Bond movie, only real.&nbsp;</p>

 

[stevekk]

Iridium Deal

Why is anyone providing financing to these Iridium folks ? Didn't they look at the past failure and learn their lessons ?

Motorola spent billions of dollars launching satellites and developing a phone and a pager (who uses those anymore) that would work over their new Iridium network. This is the definition of a "Successful" failure. They developed a mobile phone that you can only use with a clear view of the sky. No sitting in your car, office, or even under a tree. We used to laugh at these guys carrying around a huge brick with a footlong antenna while we were developing on the StarTac, (the smallest, lightest phone at the time).

The initial Iridium business failed for one simple reason. They couldn't sign up enough subscribers. The only folks would needed this capability was the military, people working in extreme remote locations, and Al Qaeda. The cost of the phone and the service subscription were just too expensive for an ordinary person to afford. There is already affordable cell service to almost every where people actually live. Verizon can make fun of AT&T's coverage map, but that really does cover 97 percent of the population.

Motorola was forced to spin off Iridium for pennies on the dollar. They took a huge bath on the deal. These Iridium LLC folks took control of the existing satellites, and was able to sustain some sort of business, but I don't see them being able to handle the multi-billion dollar debt load required to replace the entire constellation of satellites. The AirForce needs to require them to have a plan for de-orbiting the existing satellites by 2017 before they are allowed to put any new ones in the sky.

Congrats to SpaceX on getting a big contract. Good thing they require the funds to be paid upfront. I wouldn't want to be stuck behind the list of creditors when the business goes belly up again.

 

[scottb50]

Re: Iridium deal

The initial Iridium business failed for one simple reason. They couldn't sign up enough subscribers. The only folks would needed this capability was the military, people working in extreme remote locations, and Al Qaeda. The cost of the phone and the service subscription were just too expensive for an ordinary person to afford. There is already affordable cell service to almost every where people actually live. Verizon can make fun of AT&T's coverage map, but that really does cover 97 percent of the population.

With a big enough transmitter they could offer World Wide coverage with five stations and low power user units. To do it would take maintenance, cheap when you figure reconfiguration and adding capability. Solar power could easily provide enough power and a 400 mile orbit with three Equatorial and three Polar stations. Networked together they would provide near instant communications anywhere. This would cover 100% of the World and plug in Modules would allow any company or government to have proprietary communications.

 

[stevekk]

Re: Iridium deal

The initial Iridium business failed for one simple reason. They couldn't sign up enough subscribers. The only folks would needed this capability was the military, people working in extreme remote locations, and Al Qaeda. The cost of the phone and the service subscription were just too expensive for an ordinary person to afford. There is already affordable cell service to almost every where people actually live. Verizon can make fun of AT&T's coverage map, but that really does cover 97 percent of the population.

With a big enough transmitter they could offer World Wide coverage with five stations and low power user units. To do it would take maintenance, cheap when you figure reconfiguration and adding capability. Solar power could easily provide enough power and a 400 mile orbit with three Equatorial and three Polar stations. Networked together they would provide near instant communications anywhere. This would cover 100% of the World and plug in Modules would allow any company or government to have proprietary communications.

Satelitte phones are already readilly available without launching 77 new satellites (that's where the Iridium comes from). Heck, the government is already launching Milstar replacements that will be much more secure than anything Iridium can offer. Iridium has that low-polar orbit, and they actually have to pass voice and data connections off between satellites because the SAT you might currently be connected to will won't be overhead for a very long. It's like roaming between cell phone towers when you are driving in your car, except the cell towers are moving, not you. You can use less SATS if they are GEO, but then your phone is a lot less portable.

 

[scottb50]

Re: Iridium deal

You can use less SATS if they are GEO, but then your phone is a lot less portable.

It would only take a few large-scale Platforms in orbit to cover the Planet. 500 to 1,000 miles would eliminate delays. Quick change transponders, plug and play would needed occasional servicing. Robotics could work but humans would probably be cheaper, in the long run. Either way supply missions would be needed.

GEO takes too long, LEO linked Platforms makes more sense. How powerful you're phone is has to do with how powerful the signal is, it makes more sense to harness Solar energy for the biggest part of the effort.

 

[PistolPete037]

Re: Iridium Deal

Why is anyone providing financing to these Iridium folks ? Didn't they look at the past failure and learn their lessons ?

Motorola spent billions of dollars launching satellites and developing a phone and a pager (who uses those anymore) that would work over their new Iridium network. This is the definition of a "Successful" failure. They developed a mobile phone that you can only use with a clear view of the sky. No sitting in your car, office, or even under a tree. We used to laugh at these guys carrying around a huge brick with a footlong antenna while we were developing on the StarTac, (the smallest, lightest phone at the time).

The initial Iridium business failed for one simple reason. They couldn't sign up enough subscribers. The only folks would needed this capability was the military, people working in extreme remote locations, and Al Qaeda. The cost of the phone and the service subscription were just too expensive for an ordinary person to afford. There is already affordable cell service to almost every where people actually live. Verizon can make fun of AT&T's coverage map, but that really does cover 97 percent of the population.

Motorola was forced to spin off Iridium for pennies on the dollar. They took a huge bath on the deal. These Iridium LLC folks took control of the existing satellites, and was able to sustain some sort of business, but I don't see them being able to handle the multi-billion dollar debt load required to replace the entire constellation of satellites. The AirForce needs to require them to have a plan for de-orbiting the existing satellites by 2017 before they are allowed to put any new ones in the sky.

Congrats to SpaceX on getting a big contract. Good thing they require the funds to be paid upfront. I wouldn't want to be stuck behind the list of creditors when the business goes belly up again.

The latest fad in airline in-flight entertainment is in-flight wifi. Gogo, which is currently the largest in-flight wifi provider uses ground based antennas. This is fine if you're flying in the continental US, but if your plane goes over an ocean, you're stuck watching the in-flight movie All About Steve. Believe me, this is not a position that you want to find yourself in. Iridium's next generation constellation is designed to emphasize data transmission that was not emphasized in the original constellation. These days, there is a lot more business in data streaming in odd corners of the planet, than voice streaming. In flight wifi isn't by itself enough to base an entire satcom business model off of, but diversification in to such fields will help reach its full potential.

 

[stevekk]

Re: Iridium Deal

The latest fad in airline in-flight entertainment is in-flight wifi. Gogo, which is currently the largest in-flight wifi provider uses ground based antennas. This is fine if you're flying in the continental US, but if your plane goes over an ocean, you're stuck watching the in-flight movie All About Steve. Believe me, this is not a position that you want to find yourself in. Iridium's next generation constellation is designed to emphasize data transmission that was not emphasized in the original constellation. These days, there is a lot more business in data streaming in odd corners of the planet, than voice streaming. In flight wifi isn't by itself enough to base an entire satcom business model off of, but diversification in to such fields will help reach its full potential.

The problem is the lack of subscribers and re-occuring revenue.

From what I remember, the initial Iridium business had about 500-600,000 subscribers. There is no way that number of subscribers is going to produce enough revenue to cover expenses plus retire the debt service on the multi-billion capital investment needed to build and maintain the satellite network.

In-Flight WIFI might be a nice application. How much are you willing to pay, per hour, for that WIFI connection ? $100, $200 ?? Heck, the cost might go high enough where it is cheaper to fly an SST just to cut 4-5 hours off your flight time. Bring a good book or DVD instead.

 

[JonClarke]

Re: Iridium Deal

The only folks would needed this capability was the military, people working in extreme remote locations, and Al Qaeda. The cost of the phone and the service subscription were just too expensive for an ordinary person to afford. There is already affordable cell service to almost every where people actually live. Verizon can make fun of AT&T's coverage map, but that really does cover 97 percent of the population.

Actually lots of people other than the military use Irridum services. Mineral and petroleum services, scientists, farmers, sailers, explorers, anyone who works beyond the reach of mobile coverage who needs communications.